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UK and European peacekeepers in Ukraine would be allowed to fire back at Russians (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 3 days ago by to c/world@lemmy.world
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Western officials say possible Anglo-French force would also not rely on US systems or technology such as Starlink

British troops and their European allies would be allowed to fire back if attacked by Russians when potentially stationed as peacekeepers in Ukraine after a ceasefire, western officials said.

The Anglo-French led stabilisation force would also not rely on US systems or technology, such as Elon Musk’s Starlink, and is expected to be almost exclusively European if deployed.

“Clearly we will protect our forces against any aggression,” an official familiar with the plans said, though they emphasised that western troops in Ukraine would engage in a manner that was “defensive in nature”.

Details emerged as the UK and France set out Exercise Koalicja, which will take place later this month in Poland. It is an 11-country rehearsal of how European militaries could deploy rapidly to Ukraine if the war comes to an end.

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[–] 16 points 3 days ago (10 children)

You obviously have not been paying attention to the war in Ukraine the last year or so. Russia is having a bad time out there, there is no way to dress up Russia's awful performance on the battlefield over the last 18 months. The conflict has been at a stalemate for the last 3 years or so with neither country able to make decisive gains on the battlefield.

Russia has been financing the war using a sovereign wealth fund that amounted to around 300 billion dollars before the war and a similar amount of debt in preferential loans to the MIC. This wealth fund is now dry and the debt burden at high interest rates are seeing increasing rates of default. Russia's only real source of income is from selling oil and gas which has gotten a lot harder with all of the sanctions and secondary sanctions leveled against the country. Ukraine has been damaging the large oil refineries at increasing frequency harming Russia's ability to produce the oil it desperately needs to sell.

This war has been incredibly expensive for Russia, if we add up the 300 billion sovereign wealth fund, the 300billion in bank debt to the 300 billion confiscated by the west to the budgetary spending we are at well over a trillion dollars. Using Mediazonas conservative estimate of confirmed Russian deaths on the front line we are now at 282,993 dead Russian soldiers, of which 7,920 are officers, this has been a massive waste of time and money to take control over slightly more of Ukraine than Russia already had control of at the beginning of 2022.

In short, winners dictate the terms of victory and it would be laughable to suggest that what Russia is currently doing in Ukraine resembles anything close to winning. Russia should take what it can get as soon as possible because as Russia's economy continues its slide down the toilet there is no guarantee that the terms offered in a years time or two will be anywhere near as good as they are being offered at present. I have been following the war since the very beginning and have seen Russia's ability on the battlefield decline sharply over the last few years. They currently have no conceivable path to victory, I don't even know what victory at this stage would look like for them.

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  • [+] -14 points 3 days ago (9 children)

    Seeing your wall of TL;DR neoliberal text makes me cringe.

    Are you really trying to depress Russia into surrendering? Seriously? Good luck with that.

    The reason we are in a proxy war with Russia is the same reason you don't need to worry about them.

    I'm sure they appreciate your concern, however.

    How's the West's imperialist stranglehold on a unipolar world order going?

    checks notes.... 😬

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago (6 children)

    Your tankienomics chart means nothing, resources in the ground do not equal money in the bank, which is what Russia is actually running out of.

    You should put a larger Chinese flag next to a smaller Russian flag on that picture to more accurately depict who will own Russia after the war is over. I'm eagerly awaiting China announcing that they have to go into Russian Manchuria to protect the persecuted ethnic Chinese living there. 6 million Russians looking nervously at 100 million Chinese just over the border. Russia should probably just give the region to China, at least China knows what to do with resources once they have been pulled out of the ground. The orcs can't do anything other than extract and steal.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 days ago (5 children)

    I don't disagree that it's undeveloped natural resources at all. Russia has the same GDP as South Korea. What's your point?

    I'm saying that the artic thaw is opening up vast troves of natural resources which the West is intent on coveting instead of living sustainably. Capitalism is cancer that way. It grows and consumes all. It will kill us all.

    I'm saying that the natural resources is behind the West's adversarial relationship with Russia, why Putin wants NATO to back the fuck off. The idea that Russia is the threat to Europe or anyone else is rather ridiculous.

    The Rand Corporation wrote a whitepaper that basically translates to "how to fuck up Russia and take all their shit"

    And yeah, China is the future. Get used to it. The unipolar world order is over, and I think it couldn't have come soon enough. 👍

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    My point is that a Russia with resources is like a mule with a spinning wheel, no one knows how he got it and danged if he knows how to use it.

    Capitalism is cancer that way. It grows and consumes all. It will kill us all

    I'm not fan of capitalism myself but prefer it to the Fascist authoritarian klepto-shitocracy that Russia presents to the world.

    I'm saying that the natural resources is behind the West's adversarial relationship with Russia,

    Oh yea, the adversarial relationship where the west spent over €150 billion per annum buying these natural resources from Russia.

    Putin wants NATO to back the fuck off

    NATO presents no threat to Russia, as Russia in its weakened state keeps reminding us, they have a large arsenal of nuclear weapons to keep themselves safe. MAD makes a NATO attack an impossibility. What you really mean is back the fuck of Ukraine, it belongs to Russia. Russia is currently in the finding out phase that Ukraine is a sovereign nation of bad ass motherfuckers who will bleed you dry.

    The idea that Russia is the threat to Europe or anyone else is rather ridiculous.

    Ukraine and Georgia would say otherwise, your point is ridiculous.

    The Rand Corporation wrote a whitepaper that basically translates to "how to fuck up Russia and take all their shit"

    How is a war mongering conservative think tank talking about doing something as bad as Russia literally doing the same thing to Ukraine? I don't have any tears for you crybaby.

    And yeah, China is the future. Get used to it. The unipolar world order is over

    I'm pretty chill about that, not a fan of America hegemony myself. Russia has fallen so far from one of two superpowers in the world to China's yappy little lap dog who shits oil for it's master. Every day this stupid war continues weakens Russia's position in this new world order. Lenin, Stalin and the boys would be pissed at how the toxic troll in the Kremlin has reduced Russia's standing.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    I don't know how to describe this imperialist condescension as anything less than racist? They don't know what to do with it? Are you serious?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (2 children)

    Who is the imperialist in this? I'm from Ireland buddy. Russia is currently the one partaking in imperial land and resource theft in Ukraine. I don't think you understand the meaning of the words you use.

    The quote was from the Simpsons, the monorail episode to be precise. I was referencing the fact that for all of Russia's resource wealth they are useless at turning this into finished products the world wants to buy, moving up the value chain and creating more wealth for the Russian people. Instead your leaders, much like in third world nations, extract resources and sell them. I can't believe I had to spell that out for you, you're welcome.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    Defending democracy on your border from an actual empire on the other side of the world is hardly "imperialist". Russian imperialists are the fascist opposition to Putin, people like Navalny. Rest In Piss.

    As it was laid out for you in a graph a child could understand, Russia has far more natural resources than anyone, especially per capita. It's the developing nations fault they're not consuming all the world's resources??? WTF? "All pipelines lead to Rome "

    Every accusation is confession.

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  • [–] 1 point 13 hours ago

    Defending democracy by attacking your peaceful neighbour and stealing their land and resources? I'm sure it makes sense in your head but the rest of us are laughing at you. Putin's rule over Russia ticks all of the boxes on the fascist checklist yet somehow the weak controlled Russian opposition are the imperialists?

    As it was laid out for you in a graph a child could understand,

    Nobody misunderstood the simple graph, don't know who you are arguing with here, your fighting shadows dude.

    It's the developing nations fault they're not consuming all the world's resources??? WTF?

    Those resources in your graph are still underground. Russia used to be a superpower with capable industry and manufacturing, they were the nation that built all of the weapons Putin has wasted in his stupid war in Ukraine. Under Putin Russia builds nothing, adds no value to the simple resources it pulls from the ground and sells. Putin and his buddy's get rich and the Russian people get shafted.

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