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[–] 17 points 1 week ago (43 children)

Lmao wat? What “hurt their feelings” Mao being mentioned or all the deaths? He just mentioned him in relation to a meme.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 week ago (9 children)

    Yes they’re upset he insinuated that Mao was a murderer which is funny because I’m not even sure Mao himself would deny being a murderer. He’s Mr power grows out of the barrel of a gun, after all

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  • [+] -13 points 1 week ago (8 children)

    He said dictator, not murderer

    which is a lie.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 week ago* (7 children)

    Mao was a dictator, what are you talking about? Also, yes he implied Mao was a murderer.

    “Being compared to individuals who murder others, or who have brought misery to millions upon millions of people – well, I don’t think I’ve ever done anything like that in my life,” he said.

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  • [+] -13 points 1 week ago (6 children)

    Oh I didnt see his full statement, its way worse than I thought, fuck mbappe.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    I mean, were a minimum of 700,000 people not executed by the CCP in their campaign to root out counterrevolutionairies? State sanctioned murder is still murder. I’m not even counting things like the Cultural Revolution or the Great Leap Forward with that figure.

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  • [+] -21 points 1 week ago* (4 children)

    Most of those people deserved it tbh. Similar things will happen in revolutions everywhere. Alot of people just need to be gone. That doesnt mean the leader of revolution murdered them, it was the revolutionary masses.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    Oh so you're just a garbage human then. Thanks for making that clear

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  • [+] -7 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    French revolution (a liberal revolution) killed thousands Anti slavery movements led to thousands of death Anti colonial struggles led to millions of death

    And supporting these revolutions/struggles doesnt make one garbage human. Revolution and death are truth and must happen constantly until humanity is liberated. I would love peaceful revolutions, but history has proven its an oxymoron.

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  • [+] -9 points 1 week ago (32 children)

    Maybe calling the leader that ended chinese humiliation century and ended countless inhumane practices in chinese society "dictator" hurt them.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 week ago (30 children)

    Getting some positive things done doesn’t preclude someone from being a dictator.

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  • [+] -8 points 1 week ago (27 children)

    People have their leader who they respect, you might have your opinion but people also have the right to react.

    Also Mao was not a dictator.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 week ago (26 children)

    "You are dictatorial." My dear sirs, you are right, that is just what we are. All the experience the Chinese people have accumulated through several decades teaches us to enforce the people's democratic dictatorship

    Mao circa 1949 disagrees with you. I never said people aren’t allowed to be offended by Mbappe’s words, I just find it to be pearl clutching when the man himself talked about wielding dictatorial power.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago*

    You're not proving the idea that Mao believed he was an individual dictator, you're providing evidence that Mao believed China was a dictatorship of the proletariat and peasantry, ie the proletariat and peasantry jointly controlled and directed China and oppressed classes like capitalists, preventing them from having political power. That's what the "People's Democratic Dictatorship" is.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 week ago (24 children)

    You will learn alot of new stuff by learning the term Dictatorship of the Proletariat.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago (23 children)

    I have read the communist manifesto as well as later writings of Engles and Marx. Mao was still a dictator

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  • [+] -6 points 1 week ago* (22 children)

    Lets say he was the good dictator then. Chill (Also read Lenin :))

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago (6 children)

    Let's not say it's good when you get tens of millions of your subjects killed.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    Unfortunate, not intended. Lets not overlook the good stuff, youve been critiquing mao since the day you were born.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (4 children)

    "let's"

    speak for yourself tankie

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  • [–] -3 points 1 week ago* (3 children)

    I am a tankie, a proud one. (Imagine using that slur in big 26)

    Better than being cuck of epstien's ideology.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    Why is there a sudden flood of proud tankies on here that don't know what tankie means?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago*

    There's no "sudden flood" of communists, Lemmy was and still is made by communists. Communists have been here the whole time. "Tankie" is just a pejorative for those that support existing socialism, so people proud of that own the label.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (14 children)

    Lenin went full dictator the second the workers’ soviets didn’t vote the way he wanted, I’m good on his bs. The revolutionary vanguard acting like they know better than the actual proletariat is just the same style of oppression under new management.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (12 children)

    The vanguard is proletarian. It isn't that they know better than the proletariat, it's that the vanguard is the organized section of the proletariat, one that is disciplined and studies the science of revolution. Not every proletarian can afford the time or energy to do so, but this does not mean that nobody can.

    As for Lenin going "full dictator," the masses of the people supported the Bolsheviks, who coalesced the soviets into one established socialist state. There were various factions that opposed the Bolsheviks, and they lost the Civil War.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago* (11 children)

    The Bolsheviks were so popular with the masses that they lost the election of 1917 to the socialist revolutionaires. The bolsheviks were doubled up on.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago* (10 children)

    The elections in the provisional government, correct, not the soviets. You're mixing up governments, the provisional government was the one supported largely by the liberal establishment. Further, the left and right SRs had a split right before the election without the majority of workers knowing, and further still the left SRs and Bolsheviks immediately formed a coalition. You may want to brush up on your history a bit.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (9 children)

    I know that provisional government election was not the same thing as the concurrent workers Soviets, I was illustrating a point that they didn’t even receive a plurality of the votes in that election to challenge the idea that the Bolsheviks were the most popular.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (8 children)

    And I already said that most workers didn't even bother voting in the provisional government elections, because the soviet government was the one that represented them, and that the election itself was hairy because the SRs had split shortly before the election without news spreading wide enough. Further, the left SRs did form a coalition with the Bolsheviks, and supported the revolution to overthrow the provisional government.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (7 children)

    What makes you say most didn’t bother voting? More than half of eligible voters cast ballots

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago* (6 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (5 children)

    That was just an age gate, though. 20 for civilians, 18 for military men. I know of no limits based on class, land ownership, etc.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    Not formally, no. In practice, due to World War I and the brewing civil war, the administrative failures of the Provisional Government, and the general chaos in Russia, voters were skewed heavily towards urban areas, while Russia was largely peasant at the time. The Bolsheviks were popular among the peasantry as well, and this is further backed by how the peasant soviet elections went.

    In either case, the provisional government was deeply unpopular, and replacing it by soviet power was deeply popular. Carrying out the revolution was the correct action, and to go against the revolution would be to go against the people. The fact that the revolutionaries coalesced around the Bolsheviks after the fact does not mean that this was not the will of the people.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    I thought the Bolshevik support bent towards the urban proletariat whereas the SR support was from the rural peasantry

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    The Bolsheviks had broad support, the Left SRs were more among the peasantry. As I said, however, they both supported overthrowing the provisional government, which happened, and then support coalesced around the more correct Bolsheviks.

    Asking you honestly, do you disagree with Lenin for going ahead with overthrowing the provisional government, or do you think the soviet government should have coalesced around the Left SRs simply because the provisional government swang that way? Which part was "undemocratic" in your view?

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  • [–] -1 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    I find it convenient that the second their policies hit a snag in the assembly they dissolved the legislature and handed power to the Soviet congress that they had full control of due to the Mensheviks and the center and right SR’s walking out. That was clearly a blunder for those groups to back the wrong horse in the Provisional government, but if the Bolsheviks truly had a mandate from the people I don’t see why they couldn’t have won a new round of elections within the provisional government framework to then enact their policies as they saw fit. They chose after all to engage in electorialism in the first place with the 1917 election, after all.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    The chain of events is pretty clear:

    1. The provisional government becomes deeply unpopular, for massacring protestors and supporting continuing World War I.

    2. The SRs have popularity, especially among the peasantry, and win the Provisional government elections despite a split weeks before. The Left SRs support overthrowing the provisional government and replacing it with the Soviet government.

    3. The Bolsheviks, this time, already have better support among the urban workers, and the Petrograd Soviet votes to overthrow the provisional government, and actually has the power to do so.

    4. The SRs continue to fracture, and while they were popular among the peasantry for a time, the Bolsheviks swap tactics and advocate for land reform among the peasantry. This is the "land" part of "Peace, Land, and Bread." The Bolsheviks support ending the war, which is popular, they support land reform, which is popular, and they support the needs of the urban workers, which is also popular.

    5. As the SRs fall apart from their split, a bunch join the Bolsheviks, same as the Mensheviks, in solidifying Soviet Power. The Bolsheviks have been consistently correct the entire time, and do not have the same fracturing due to practicing Democratic Centralism. They succeed in gaining influence and broadening it, resulting in the Soviet Union.

    The idea that the Bolsheviks ever needed a mandate from the provisional government elections is wrong. Even if we assume the Left SRs had a mandate from those elections, the SRs supported overthrowing the provisional government anyways, and then the SRs fell apart while the Bolsheviks strengthened. At no point did Lenin alienate himself from the desires of the people, and in time the people became coalesced around the Bolsheviks.

    Say you're Lenin. What part would you do differently? Should they have stood by and not overthrown the provisional government, even though it was clear that that was what the workers wanted? Should they have not adopted land reform and won over the peasants, making them the most broadly supported platform? Should they have prevented the SRs from collapsing, or turned away their members requesting to join?

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