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‘A hidden tradition’: Benjamin Moser wants you to know Jewish anti-Zionism is not new (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 2 weeks ago by to c/politics@lemmy.world
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In 1987, the Israeli human rights attorney Felicia Langer was paying a visit to the Neve Tirza women’s prison when a client named Siham shared some disturbing news: the prisoners held there had recently been sprayed with a chemical agent that left them writhing on the floor. Langer grabbed a tissue that had been exposed to the substance – a piece of evidence, perhaps, in a future legal case. Then, on impulse, she lifted it to her face and inhaled deeply. Her hope, she wrote later, was that doing so might enable a doctor to identify the toxin.

This anecdote appears in Anti-Zionism: A Jewish History*,* by Benjamin Moser. In it, the Pulitzer prize-winning author profiles a dozen Jews who actively opposed Zionism, before and after the establishment of Israel – from Aaron Samuel Tamares, a Polish rabbi who began inveighing against Jewish nationalism in the late 19th century; to British diplomat Edwin Montagu, who sought to derail the 1917 Balfour declaration promising a Jewish state in Palestine; to Israeli “new historian” Avi Shlaim – figures he sees as part of “a hidden tradition … of people who, though long dismissed and despised, were ultimately proven right”. Along the way, he seeks to dismantle the Zionist “fairytale,” as he puts it, piece by piece.

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[–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (15 children)

before I say what I’m about to say I want to be clear I don’t think Judaism = Zionism and I agree that Netanyahu is absolutely pushing that narrative to support his goals.

That said I think your comparison to race here is quite unfair. Bigotry surrounding race, sex, orientation etc is fundamentally different than religion. It needs to be acknowledged that profiling behaviors based on race, sex, orientation etc is wrong in large part because those things have very little to do with people’s behavior or beliefs outside their narrow domain. So the only broad stroke statements to make about them are bigoted and hateful.

On the other hand religion shapes someone’s entire worldview and how they act. I think it’s a bit of a problem that somehow we’ve convinced ourselves which cult you joined deserves as much respect how you were born. It doesn’t. And while not everyone who’s a member of the cult believes all its tenets it’s entirely fair to acknowledge that the central tenets of these cults are deeply problematic in themselves.

So yeah lots of people who call themselves Jewish are not Zionist but that requires not accepting key parts of the central texts. So I guess what I’m saying is for Non-Zionist Jewish people I think the burden of proof is kinda on them to clarify. When you identify yourself as a member of a cult I’m gonna assume you follow its teachings unless you tell me otherwise. Similarly we can’t pretend the existence of the cult is entirely independent of the existence of fundamentalists that take its texts to the most literal and problematic extreme.

Holy war and its war crimes have plagued humanity for literally its entire history and I think we need to be honest about the fact that while individual people who are members of these cults may not be problematic the continued acceptance of these widespread cults in the modern era totally is.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (1 child)

    I didn't compare any races. The Abrahamic faiths are of many (probably all) races. So, you saying that my comparison is to race is untrue, and in fact insulting.

    We do agree that these faiths are a problem. I suggest that we at least charge them taxes like any other organization, since they are all unbelievably wealthy already. I think they'll be fine without our help.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    Oh dear the lack of reading comprehension has struck again. I was defending you dude. I was replying to the other guy who compared your take to saying all black people do crime cuz one did crime

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (9 children)

    No group of people is a monolith

    Take it about nations then. Because when I said "no group of people" in this context what I meant was citizens of a country, but again, it's any group.

    Take a group of boomers who believe the Chevy Corvette is the best vehicle ever, within that group there will be schisms and disagreements.

    I'll say it one more time:

    No group of people is a monolith

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago

    Eh, it's different when the Corvette isn't just the one we know, but "Chevy Corvette, the car that makes you better than everyone so it's your eternal imperative to kill them or rule them!™"

    I can't go to that gathering and try to find the people who "love the car for its engineering, but don't support the advertised slogans and belief that they cut your dick up and bind you to as a baby", it's just too dangerous.

    Now, singling out Judaism for this "slogan" is certainly asinine. It's all three abrahamic religions. But people who can ignore the rapey molestery murdery commands of any of those books, and pretend like their religion is good, are all a problem.

    Though they are not a monolith, they all share that trait; they believe in those commands or they are ok with pushing the religion that contains them

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    I agree, I don’t think that contradicts anything I just said.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Then I have no idea why you want on a giant rant about religion if you knew while talking generally, I was talking about citizenship

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Because you then compared the guy saying religions with problematic teachings are problematic to a racists. A take you notably did not even discuss in the comment I said I had no disagreement with.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    I also used Boomers arguing about vettes...

    Im sorry, I'm just not going to be able to explain this in a way that is understandable for you

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    Yeah after my rebuttal? There’s a reason I agreed with the boomer corvette one and not the black crime one… did you get confused about the order of comments or something lol

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Indeed. But, the Holy Books say what they say, and they are a monolith, and blood is being spilt over it right now as we speak.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    They absolutely are not...

    There's a shit ton of flavors of every religion.

    Christians have Catholics and Protestants.

    Judaism has Orthodox and liberal.

    Islam has Sunnie and Shiat.

    And if you look at any of those groups, they have internal divisions. And even at the smallest group, not everyone agrees.

    Emo Philips had a bit on this over 50 years ago, maybe he can explain it better:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANNX_XiuA78

    No group is a monolith

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    Sure but when a country has run one way for decades. Has citizens going and taking over others lands. Salting the soil and all that. I'm sorry but doesn't just fall on the government. And let's just say that most people don't support this the fact that they do nothing means they do.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    I think a lot of people don't realize that not every Jewish person is Judaist and not every Judaist is Jewish. There's this weird idea that all members of the race believe the same thing, which is demonstrably false, yet people continue to conflate the race and the religion.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    I recognize that English is spoken all over the world and there are many regional differences but to me (and I think most Americans) Jewish = practices Judaism. People who are ethnically Jewish will say “ethnically Jewish” or something more specific like ashkenazi etc. Your comment seems to imply to you “Jewish” means the race not the religion so let me clarify I was referring to the religion exclusively throughout.

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