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Antivax is a way for people to rationalise their fear of needles (lemmy.ml)
submitted 2 weeks ago by to c/showerthoughts@lemmy.world
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They are just not aware that they have this fear and can't therefore understand and work on it effectively. Some people just seem to be stuck in emotional toddlerhood.

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[–] -1 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

So living memory is now a property of people who have direct experience of something?

Yes!! That's literally what "living memory" literally means! Wtf are you talking about "direct realism" it's literally just the definition!

You can argue that the aftermath of WWII is in living memory for some people (still nowhere close to half), and you can argue that WWII is still in the cultural memory of Germans (although the word "cultural" may trigger your unhinged brainworms about social sciences), but claiming that it's in the "living memory" for half of Germans is just factually wrong and shows that you have no idea what you're talking about.

You work from phenomena to the relevant objects instead of considering the concrete objects for themselves and then see how the concrete interactions turn into something bigger.

What does "concrete interactions" mean, and how is it different from "material relations?"

I don’t care + same is true for me then, I can have an opinion about your opinion. I can say it’s shit. What are you going to do?

Nothing. You are allowed to consider something else to be the greatest accomplishment or to say that there's no greatest accomplishment or whatever, and I'm allowed to think otherwise. It's a subjective question, one of values, and unless you can argue based on reason on evidence (which you haven't) why I'm wrong, then calling me a "fool" for valuing vaccines so highly is stupid and meaningless.

Foolish and eliminativist, and not what Marx or any relevant thinker meant with mysticism.

"Materialism is when you believe in mysticism" lmao where do you even get this shit? Like, I am genuinely fascinated by all these utterly bizarre ideas you have, that have nothing whatsoever to do with the labels you use to describe them. I really wonder where they come from at all.

Moralist

Is it wrong for me to be?

So what have states done in history?

Well, for one thing relevant to this discussion, they coordinated a global vaccination campaign that eradicated smallpox.

Your oughts don’t mean anything, when historically no state ever did jack squat in regards to fulfilling needs of commoners. None.

Complete and utter nonsense. The PRC literally doubled life expectancy within a generation.

Let me guess, you are also part of the “real democracy has never been tried”-crowd.

What on earth are you talking about? Please stop "guessing" about my views, you've been doing an atrociously bad job of it so far. Maybe listen to the words I actually say instead.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

    claiming that it’s in the “living memory” for half of Germans is just factually wrong and shows that you have no idea what you’re talking about.

    You have no clue about Germany and you underestimate holocaust education.

    What does “concrete interactions” mean, and how is it different from “material relations?”

    It's not any different and I did not debate the thought of material relations.

    then calling me a “fool” for valuing vaccines so highly is stupid and meaningless.

    I called you a fool because you said they are mankind's greatest achievement. That is objectively foolish

    "Materialism is when you believe in mysticism"

    I did not say that, nor do I believe in mysticism. I believe in investigating that which appears mystical, that was my point. You idiot. Quit putting words in my mouth, you are proving more and more with every message how disingenuous your approach is.

    moralist

    Is it wrong for me to be?

    Yes, science does not operate on morals. You claim to be interested in a social science of sorts.

    The PRC literally doubled life expectancy within a generation.

    So did other countries in (a similar way at least) that developed extremely quickly, like Japan and so on. China is not special and it was in the interest of China to maximise their population potential to get ahead in state-state competition.

    What on earth are you talking about? Please stop “guessing” about my views,

    I don't have to guess your views, they're atrocious enough.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    You have no clue about Germany and you underestimate holocaust education.

    I guess I do! They must be actually gassing Jews and invading Poland during that education! Because that is literally the only possible way for it to be in "living memory" by definition!

    It’s not any different and I did not debate the thought of material relations.

    That's literally what the whole argument is about! Ok then, if you're doing a complete 180, then, let's return to the original point. The material relations determined that certain countries did not get vaccines until later than other countries. Those material relations have shaped the thoughts and cultures of those countries, to make them less prone to conspiracy theories.

    That's what you had a problem with! That's what caused you to say, "You might as well go back to church and PRAY!" All I've been saying this whole time is that it was the material relations that shaped people's thoughts and ideas!

    That is objectively foolish

    Let's add "objectively" to the long list of words you don't know the meaning of, along side "living memory" "materialism" and "sociology."

    So did other countries in (a similar way at least) that developed extremely quickly, like Japan and so on.

    Are you claiming that Japan was a stateless society? Or did you just provide me with more evidence that states can improve people's quality of life?

    I don’t have to guess your views, they’re atrocious enough.

    What have I said that's "atrocious?" Wanting to remove misinformation? Acknowledging that material relations are a thing that exist?

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 child)

    I guess I do! They must be actually gassing Jews and invading Poland during that education! Because that is literally the only possible way for it to be in “living memory” by definition!

    You idiot really believe that the people who voted the nazis in, and celebrated them were like "Oh nooo we did a big bad~~" after they lost? People wanted hitler back after the war. Antifascist consciousness arose only in the late 70's. The whole living memory thesis remains to be horseshit.

    Those material relations have shaped the thoughts and cultures of those countries, to make them less prone to conspiracy theories.

    This is not what I am saying and I do not agree with that. This is complete horseshit still as it hinges on the idea of living memory o algo.

    I’ve been saying this whole time is that it was the material relations that shaped people’s thoughts and ideas!

    You did not.

    Are you claiming that Japan was a stateless society? Or did you just provide me with more evidence that states can improve people’s quality of life?

    this doesn't follow and is bullshit. I said the state apparati did not lengthen life expectancy out of the goodness of their hearts. I said they did it so they have a workforce with which they can "win" in state-state competition. Your thought about the benevolent state is a fiction.

    What have I said that’s “atrocious?” Wanting to remove misinformation? Acknowledging that material relations are a thing that exist?

    Your pro-state top down approach and speech policing is quite horrible, yes. A genuinely unsympathetic and cynical approach to politics that can aptly be described as nannying. Cynical because of the distrust of the organic action of the subjects – workers. You are a real counterpoint to staffordshire beer, in the worst way. I will quit talking to you. No surprise that your moderation history is full of bans.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago

    You idiot really believe that the people who voted the nazis in, and celebrated them were like “Oh nooo we did a big bad~~” after they lost? People wanted hitler back after the war. Antifascist consciousness arose only in the late 70’s. The whole living memory thesis remains to be horseshit.

    You mean that the people who were shaped by the conditions that caused people to become Nazis, remained being Nazis, even after conditions changed? And you think this proves that events being in living memory don't influence people's views?

    This is not what I am saying and I do not agree with that.

    So then you don't agree that material relations shape people's thoughts and ideas, and you are not a materialist.

    out of the goodness of their hearts

    When the fuck did I ever claim they did it "out of the goodness of their hearts?" There you go, assuming my views and getting it wrong again, instead of listening to my actual words.

    A genuinely unsympathetic and cynical approach to politics

    Moralist.

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