ciferecaNinjo comments on How paper cheques are critically important to our human right to autonomy. Belgians will lose this right soon.

How paper cheques are critically important to our human right to autonomy. Belgians will lose this right soon. (fedia.io)

submitted 1 month ago by ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io to c/right_to_unplug@sopuli.xyz

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Crossposted from https://fedia.io/m/humanrights@crazypeople.online/t/4433054

Belgium plans to do away with paper cheques. Apparently no one is fighting this. The eagerness to do away with paper cheques can only be attributed to addiction to convenience without regard to the consequences.

Once paper cheques are gone, there will be no way to survive without banks. Even if you walk away from your job and go on social aid, the social aid has no way to reach you without a bank account. Paper cheques are the sole means having personal autonomy from banks.

Some pensioners still receive their pension payment as a paper cheque, which they can cash without having a bank account. Belgium is taking this away.

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (12 children)

It does not need to be.

My country - Portugal - has a residual use of cheques and pensions have ceased to be paid through it.

The government established, through force of law, a bank account ensuring minimal banking services to all, including a card, valid for payments and withdrawals on the national network. The account has a fixed maintenance cost of less than €5, per year. Every single banking institution on the country has to offer it, no exceptions. And because the account is geared towards minimal functionalities and services, banks have admited it is run at a loss; they can't upsell.

An individual using such an account can receive their pension, withdraw all of it on the day it is deposited, and forget about it. It is that simple. Many older or people that distrust banks do as such.

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[–] ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io [S] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (11 children)

Basic banking is part of the problem. It’s because of basic banking that forced-banking (your loss of autonomy) becomes possible.

Basic banking in Belgium is much worse. What you are paying annually in Portugal for basic banking is a /monthly/ cost in Belgium.

Every single banking institution on the country has to offer it, no exceptions.

Even digital banks where customers cannot function without a recent Android? Even the expensive private banks that normally require a minimum balance of €100k?

In Belgium, there are banks that say “our application form to open a basic account is only on our website”, thus offline people (and Tor users) are excluded from those banks. There is (incidentally?) a Belgian bank that has a paper application form for a basic account, but then we are stuck with that bank. I doubt the digital banks offer basic accounts, but it might be interesting to try to force one of them to open a basic account without using their shitty app.

An individual using such an account can receive their pension, withdraw all of it on the day it is deposited, and forget about it. It is that simple. Many older or people that distrust banks do as such.

Belgium banned all cash transactions on basic accounts. So Belgians pay about 10× more for a crippled purely cashless service. When Belgians are ultimately finally forced to lick the boots of a bank, perhaps Portugal is a lesser of evils to open a basic account. I suppose a Belgian could use an ATM in Belgium to draw money from a Portuguese basic account?

Is it possible to deposit cash into a basic account in Portugal?

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[–] Libb@piefed.social 1 point 1 month ago* (1 child)

Basic banking in Belgium is much worse. What you are paying annually in Portugal for basic banking is a /monthly/ cost in Belgium.

Then the issue is not the cheques or them being suppressed. It's Belgian legislators being morons and/or assholes. That's what you should protest against because no paper cheque on earth will make your politicians suddenly more competent or less of an asshole. Note that we our own incompetent assholes here in France too, not pointing any blaming finger toward Belgium ;)

Also don't forget the coming Digital Euro. For a while it will be optional, look how practical that is come try it, but their objective is most certainly to get rid of any form of cash, aka physical money.

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[–] ciferecaNinjo@fedia.io [S] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Then the issue is not the cheques or them being suppressed. It's Belgian legislators being morons and/or assholes. That's what you should protest against

You’re not talking about the right to autonomy. You’re talking about saving money. Paper cheques give autonomy that cannot be bought. If anything, the high cost of basic banking serves to justify the importance to our human right to autonomy from banks.

If basic banking were €100 per month, it would be much harder to defend forced-banking because people who don’t give a shit about rights, just money, would also oppose forced banking on the basis of cost alone.

(edit) I can understand why the French would fixate on cost though. French banks were found to be the most expensive in Europe, at least at one point. But if they hold on to the paper cheque, they would be due some respect for that.

no paper cheque on earth will make your politicians suddenly more competent or less of an asshole. Note that we our own incompetent assholes here in France too, not pointing any blaming finger toward Belgium ;)

The paper cheque gives us a degree of autonomy regardless of the competency of the politicians. A paper cheque gives access to cash without having a bank account. With paper cheques in play, I don’t give a shit how much politicians fuck up banking because I have the liberty to walk away from it. That’s the most important because banks have turned to shit and they will continue to worsen (in part due to bad policy).

Also don't forget the coming Digital Euro. For a while it will be optional, look how practical that is come try it, but their objective is most certainly to get rid of any form of cash, aka physical money.

We will deal with that slippery slope if it turns out to be a slippery slope. At the moment, the proposed legal tender law establishes that the digital euro cannot replace or threaten cash. It’s far from being a threat at the moment. The fire to put out is the loss of the sole payment instrument that gives us autonomy.