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Foreign officials say Trump has sent US allies running — and it’s permanent (www.alternet.org)
submitted 1 month ago by to c/world@lemmy.world
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Donald Trump's bruising return to the White House has sent many longtime foreign allies scrambling to get their distance, and according to a new piece from The Atlantic, that distance will last long after Trump is gone.

Trump's second term as president has been marked by notable and widespread disrespect toward nations once seen as close U.S. allies. Between his attempts to level massive tariffs against nearly every nation in the world and his frequent breaches of diplomatic norms, Trump has created a hostile global environment in which allies no longer feel safe trusting in the stability of the U.S.

In a new piece for The Atlantic on Tuesday, staff writer Vivian Salama argued that this new dynamic, in which the nations of the world are working to establish a safe distance from the U.S., is bound to become the new normal for years to come, even after Trump leaves office and is potentially replaced by a more traditional, dependable administration.

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[–] 11 points 1 month ago (101 children)

As an American I have no doubt that our relationship with our allies will improve once we restore some sanity to the White House, but we’ve forced our allies to diversify their trade to brunt the impact of our tariffs and now that they’ve done so I don’t see any sane reason why they would undo that.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Well then you haven't been paying attention.

    We have committed some of the worst war crimes of the modern era

    We threatened to INVADE MULTIPLE ALLIES

    We have constantly lied and broken multiple signed agreements

    Our allies have permanently changed large scale trade operations to China for stability

    The dollar has decreased in value

    Allies have removed bonds and gold reserves from our country.

    Allowed a bloated and swollen pedophilic rapist to go on tv and threaten to nuke a civilization at the UN

    Ostracized ourselves by launching state run media and threatening to dismantle the ICC (which is investigating us for warcrimes)

    Allowed the president's family to invade and steal islands from sovereign nations (we all know what they want islands for)

    And more!

    No. There is no going back. The country was couped and is dead. Take a look at who is running every agency within government and you go ahead and tell yourself in the mirror that when trump doesn't accept the election results, he won't, that Kash Patel and Tom Homan will send DHS and the FBI to arrest trump. Maybe the Military run by kegsbreath and the businessman secretaries will come get him? Maybe the US Marshals will come get him- oh wait, they gave Trump a marshal badge and said he is the "highest law enforcement officer in the land"

    A country of delusional peasants.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Trump is just a symptom of a rot that goes so much deeper. Nixon was forced to resign because he was caught spying on his political rivals. Trump tried to overthrow the government, faced no consequences, ran for president again, and won.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    That's what I am saying.

    If anyone in the government wanted to keep him out of office,because they absolutely knew what Trump was before he was in the political spotlight, they could have..

    If they ever wanted to arrest him, they could have.

    They could all stop him at any point right now, but they won't.

    None of that is going to change when he says, "the election wasn't fair" or "it was rigged" or some lame fake AI attack.

    He will just do it. Dems will feign outrage and then we will be mad about something else. Why is everyone ok with this?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago*

    I hate it but you're right. No two ways about it.

    I think the only thing that could POSSIBLY put us on a positive path again would be if we were to wrest control back to the People again, and quite publicly show the world we're locking away all these nazis forever on some forgotten rock in the middle of the Pacific, and throwing away the key.

    But yeah, something like that would be truly incredible and unexpected...

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    I disagree and you will never find this many inprecedented actions in history that worked

    What we witnessed was a second "Business Plot". The first one didn't work out because we had principled leaders and Veterans wouldn't betray the nation.

    The oligarchs that failed (mostly the same companies as today) lost principled Republicans and were universally hated while FDRs popularity soared. Republicans learned from this and systematically dismantled education in this country and courted the racist south.

    What we have just witnessed, is a business plot that succeeded. We were couped by a coalition of extreme generational wealth, christian nationalists, and the tech facsists.

    We have witnessed the dismantling and conquering of every agency and institution that could hold them responsible (to include putting a dictators face on them). Every agency that was investigating this group was taken over and is still being dismantled. The heads of these agencies are cult members.

    We witnessed an unelected businessman with open conflicts of interest invade our government and sabotage every investigation against him and STEAL OUR MOST SENSITIVE DATA. they stole OPM records, social security information, etc and put it on an unknown server. They also installed their AI into every agency and the Pentagon. There is no recovering from that.

    -this would be all of the actions that I previously listed

    -the Epstein files and lack of response from our government has shattered the entire IDEA of justice in this country and unmasked the hidden depravity of extreme wealth.

    No. Your snyde comment shows a lack of sophomoric comprehension of history and current events.

    Please show me a comparable time in our history equal to this?

    And no, the Gilded Age was not this bad as far as everything mentioned

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Unfortunately I'm with you, we proved to the world that our country as a whole is morally bankrupt. The best way forward could be splitting the county in two and letting the lunatics drown in their own stupidity.

    Unfortunately they'd never give up their nukes and they're stupid enough to use them so WTF do you even do?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Honestly, I'm not sure yet. In a perfect world, we take back the government and rebuild it in an actual way that democracy can be enforced (like the Scandinavian countries)

    I would personally prefer that blue states join Canada and the EU because the red states will fall into poverty and debt and they will blame us and invade.

    But the true root of all of the issues we have always had are generational wealth (extreme wealth) and corporations. So idk how we can stop this cycle with those

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago (43 children)

    our relationship with our allies will improve once we restore some sanity to the White House

    This is not enough unfortunately. Your checks and balances need to be checked and balanced. If they are not working now, why would they work in the future?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (34 children)

    Working? You are hilarious. Congress and Senate or Supreme Court should have put the brakes on Trump a year ago. They are still siding and abetting him instead. Even the military is happy to ignore the Constitution to do Trump's bidding. It's less than given that the Nov elections will be honoured. Doesn't look like checks and balances to the outside world.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (24 children)

    Abandoning is a melodramatic way of putting it. Diversifying is a more accurate term. And it’s something that the rest of the world shouldn’t have waited until this point to do. Other countries will always have to rely on the U.S. to some degree, but the fact that they let America be the world police in the first place is their own doing.

    America was never promised to be a perfect utopia that could never do wrong. On the contrary, the founding fathers were well aware of the potential for things to go wrong, and they built the country to be resistant to a complete fall into tyranny, and so far it has been. You’re free to speculate on the future, but as of right now we haven’t yet reached the low points some of our now allies did just in this past century.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (22 children)

    It's the accurate way to put it. For example, Canadians are not diversifying their shopping habits. They are consciously choosing to abandon American made goods.

    It’s the emotion driven, factually inaccurate way to put it.

    Looks like imports and exports over this summer are up over last year

    Should other countries be paying the US to be the world police force?

    How about not handing over that power to the US at all?

    Including clauses like emoluments, restrictions on terms, separation of church and state etc. Many of which are being or have been eroded

    None of them have been. Arguing about things you don’t really understand is only a sign that maybe you’re not so different from the average flyover state American. Every point you’ve tried to make so far is either a critical misunderstanding, or is outright verifiably false.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (20 children)

    Many have been. Refer to our previous conversation for the example.

    They haven’t been. Our previous conversation confirms that. It’s just you saying things, as if merely speaking them makes them true, like some kind of Harry Potter spell. Like I said, it’s just ignorance on your part, misunderstanding the basis of things.

    No power is handed over to the US.

    Oh course it has. Americas defense spending isn’t really a factor. With every defense agreement, trade agreement, and willful choice to put all your eggs in Americas basket, you handed over that power.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (18 children)

    You have admitted several Supreme Court judges are compromised. I.e. several checks have already failed.

    That does not logically follow. The Supreme Court is a panel for a reason, the check succeeded. Again you don’t seem to know what the checks and balances are.

    Reversal of roe v wade is solid evidence against your protestations.

    Not in the slightest. Not sure how you came to this conclusion.

    You’re just kind of babbling incoherently at this point. It’s getting harder and harder to keep track of the mental gymnastics you’re doing. You’re replying like an AI chat bot that’s filled it’s context window.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (16 children)

    The checks that are supposed to prevent compromised judges from sitting in the Supreme Court have failed. This we have agreed.

    We have not agreed. The system does not rely on or promise in the absolute certainty that every Supreme Court justice can be ensured to be impartial. Thats why the Supreme Court is a panel, and mechanisms exist to remove judges. In order for the panel to fail, a majority of Supreme Court justices must be compromised. The fact that there are two problematic members on the panel is within what the panel size was designed to mitigate.

    The panel voted 6-3 to reverse a federal constitutional right. The panel check failed.

    No they did not do that. Abortion access has never at any time been an explicit right in the United States constitution. What the panel did was reverse an earlier decision that a constitutional right to something else entirely merely allowed abortion access as a consequence. The panel check did not fail because the panel did only what was within its power to do. If we want abortion access to be a constitutional right, we have to actually put it in our constitution. Roe v Wade was never more than a bandaid without a permanent solution. We absolutely should enshrine abortion access into our constitution, but before you condemn us for not having yet done so, you should know that the EU does not have a law allowing it in all member states either. In fact two EU member states have restrictions similar to the US.

    What you’re doing isn’t reasoning. You’re just misunderstanding the facts on a fundamental level and then drawing unreasonable conclusions from a pool of ignorance.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (14 children)

    But there are supposed to be checks to ensure impartiality. These have obviously

    Like what? Which checks are those specifically? We can’t violate checks that exist only in your head.

    The fact that there exists a second layer of checks doesn't mean the first can be ignored

    Incorrect, having multiple avenues of remediation is the entire point of the system. Thats why they’re referred to as “Checks and balances”, it’s implicit in the name that the system balances faults with remediations. The existence of faults is an assumption of inevitability, not a promise that they can’t and won’t exist. This is a great example of your inability to reason.

    The U.S. Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment protects an individual's right to privacy, which includes the right to decide whether to have an abortion.

    It does not. It protects an individual’s right to privacy, it doesn’t say anything about abortion. Saying it applies to abortion was an interpretation made by the Supreme Court, and thus can be reinterpreted by the Supreme Court. Thats the basis of how our legal system was designed. The legislative branch is the body of government that must actually enshrine the right to abortion access into the constitution.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (12 children)

    Judges who were not under the pay of Conservative billionaires disagree with you.

    They do not disagree with me. You can just go and read the fourteenth amendment. It’s not like a lost document. It says nothing about abortion. Roe V Wade was a net positive for us as a society, but it was never a solution.

    He should be impeached, but that check has failed.

    It hasn’t. He’s still open to impeachment.

    You have an inability to accept that some checks have already failed

    You have an inability to prove any have

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (10 children)

    It says nothing about personal computers but privacy still applies.

    No it doesn’t. The protections for personal computers comes from the fourth amendment. The fourteenth amendment just acts as a bridge to the fourth for the states. Likewise if we actually add an amendment to the constitution protecting abortion access, the fourteenth would apply it to the states. But the fourteenth doesn’t either on its own. You continue to prove you don’t understand any of the things you’re talking about.

    He is still a judge. Check has failed.

    Can’t have. He can still be impeached, and there is an interest among opposition government. The check still exists.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (8 children)

    Your argument is that the word abortion doesn't explicitly appear. Computers are not mentioned in either the 4th or 14th amendment.

    Incorrect, the 4th amendment states:

    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

    “Effects” mean personal property. Since computers are your personal property they are explicitly protected in the fourth amendment. There’s no such provision in the constitution that explicitly protects abortion access the way the fourth protects computers.

    And until he has been we can confidently state that this check has failed.

    Because that remediation exists and has not been in any way defeated, we can confidently say that check has not failed.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (6 children)

    Ctrl + f "abortion". Not there

    Ctrl + f "computer". Not there

    That’s a a very childlike understanding of language, but in the fourth amendment if you Ctrl + f “effects” , you’ll get a result. And a computer is an effect. The fourth amendment is explicit, all of your effects are protected. Unless you can make the argument that a computer you bought and paid for that you own is not your personal property, and therefore not an effect, your argument here has failed.

    Judge Clarence is still sitting

    And Congress has the power to impeach and the senate has the power to convict, which we may very well see soon. Since this check has not yet failed, it hasn’t failed. Simple as.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

    At least now that you know what you’re doing, you can take steps to do better

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

    You’re arguing that the checks and balances are failing, but have been unable to provide any actual examples due to all of your claims being poorly reasoned, and based on information that’s verifiably false.

    I didn’t argue the different between the 4th and 14th amendments. You tried to compare a right that doesn’t exist to one that explicitly does. You incorrectly stated a right to abortion was implicitly covered by the constitution by comparing it to the right to protect personal property from unreasonable searches and seizure. But the latter is explicitly covered in the constitution. The former is not. A bad faith argument that stems from you not knowing and not caring what’s actually in the constitution.

    You are the bad faith sealion because you argue with the purpose of exhausting me into giving up by making a number of specious, low-effort arguments from a place of willful ignorance, where you get to make any claim without the burden evidence or reason behind it, but force me to respond from a place of knowledge and understanding.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Ok, let's try this differently.

    In your opinion, why are the allies of the US turning away, and why is this permanent (i.e. more than just Trump)?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago*

    They’re turning away because the US is causing them economic harm.

    It’s not permanent, but it is longer term than Trump because the soft power the US built in the last 75 years was due to the aftermath of WW2 and the decades of economic inertia that followed, and once those allies diversify their trade, there’d be no reason for them to go back to their over reliance on American trade (unless America gives them a very compelling reason to).

    Trade with Canada and Mexico will be least affected among the US’ allies though because at the end of the day the USA is the worlds largest consumer economy and without the tariffs it’s just cheaper to export to the US than across an ocean. It’s Americas allies across the pond that will take the longest to recover

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  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Its going to take at least 50 years of good faith, and I wish you good fucking luck with the insane 4 year flip flop political bias your country has.

    We Canadians have been scratching our heads over the course of your increasing instability for 20 years, and we aren't going to forget that over night.

    Trump is a sign that the political landscape in the US is so unstable that nothing promised by any political figure can be trusted by your allies.

    Only a foolish nation forgets that overnight. We won't.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    If it was only the US, that would be something, but it's happening to a lesser extent elsewhere too. The UK, France, Germany, Netherlands, and probably more I missed, are all showing a surge in right-wing support despite the mess Dumold Trump is making. In the UK Nigel Farage is like mini-Trump, and despite proof of his lies and corruption his support seems to grow.

    Something is rotten in the societies that are allowing this to happen, and I envy Canada for how it seems to be resisting it. Long may it continue.

    The damage being caused to US reputation on the world stage won't be fixable without fixing the rot first, because without that it could all happen again, and US allies know it.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    The problem is one of who comes next for America and after that.

    Now the world knows America is willing to vote people like Trump into office, it has to act accordingly.

    Trump Is what you expect from Argentina or some country already in trouble trying to find a way out.

    Not the biggest economy in the world! Now everyone has to plan accordingly that this can and probably will happen again.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago

    Not the biggest economy in the world!

    Why would you not expect that of the U.S. because they’re the biggest economy in the world?

    Germany is the third biggest economy in the world and they’re currently dealing with a Huge surge in far-right extremism in their government.

    Japan is the fourth largest economy and they’ve seen a Rise in nationalist conservative government

    The UK is like the fifth or so largest economy in the world and let us not forget what happenened when they Elected their discount Trump

    Italy is the 8th largest and they’ve been Governed by the far right for the last four years

    Like the majority of the worlds top 10 economies have seen a far-right shift on some significant level in the last 5 years, so I’m not really sure how you came upon those expectations

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  • [–] 18 points 1 month ago* (10 children)

    America used to be dependable to its allies. Treacherous, but in predictable ways. Now the seal is broken, and it’s been proved that any norm can be ignored. So that’s never going to return to how it was. Its now firmly in the category of erratic unstable partners and that will not change with any successor.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    In fairness to Germany we had the Nuremberg trials where the top Nazis were held accountable for their crimes and hanged. You could argue that the current American administrations crimes are not on a par with Nazi Germany's, which I would agree with but accountability is not in the Americans vocabulary. Trump and his team have suffered no consequences from the Jan 6th insurrection, I don't think anyone will face any consequences for supporting Israel's genocide both at the UN and in supplying the weapons to keep it going. I can't see anyone being punished for the war crimes committed in Iran, worst of all bombing a little girls school killing 120 children.

    America's biggest loss under trump has been in the soft power they have spent the last 100 years building. The mask has fully slipped with no plausible deniability about what America is and where they are headed. We in Europe will still cynically do business with you, the USA remains the global military and financial hegemon but the public support is gone for a generation at least.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    Germany as a nation teaches its children about all their dark history and acknowledges the atrocities committed. Their leaders were held to account at Nuremberg while the country was under allied occupation, I accept your point that it was not Germany themselves holding them to account but the country as a whole accepts responsibility for their crimes in a way the USA couldn't even imagine.

    The USA on the other hand has never accepted formal responsibility for the genocide of the native American population.

    The subversions of justice you mentioned by the allied powers, I fail to see the point you are making mentioning this.

    Your view that it will be business as usual after the current American regime is what I think is rose tinted. The USA used to get away with the atrocities they committed using a combination of plausible deniability and soft power. This is no longer an option post the current trump regime, this is the point. This loss of soft power with their former allies will only hasten the USA's downfall and it is hard to see them maintaining their current dominant position going forward. The USA's current prosperity is borrowed not earned and is in part financed by their allies. The current bond market is an indicator of what is to come.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    The big problem with this is that the promise was secretly "forign policy is uniparty. Whether it's an" R" or a "D" our forign policy will be relatively consistent" and Trump broke that promise. Now every nation has to prepare for the eventuality that different presidents might have different policy toward their allies (and adversaries. No president before Trump would have canceled drills with South Korea on North Korea's behalf). That will take decades of consistency to repair, and as a fellow American, I'm not certain they will get that consistency going forward with the state of politics in the US.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    White House? You are blind to the gravity of the problem. The supreme courts will still be stuffed. The federal agencies will still be full and led by his cronies. Congress will still be gerrymandered to hell. Voting is now on its way to be directly compromised as well on every level. There are more lobbyists with deeper pockets willing to feed the DINOs, and the protections against their corruption has eroded. Even public sentiment is too stupid to survive the amount of time and administrations it would take to fix the whole system, they will accept that both parties are the same on a dime even when the specifics are on radically different scales.

    To be fair, the US isn't the only country that is having a corruption problem. We are living through a time where corruption continues to get easier and the ultra rich think they have an out with AI and robotics for the future apocalypse.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    The damage done will take decades to undo. No one trusts USA anymore. Even when Trump is gone, no one will trust you. We saw you vote him in TWICE. So who knows who you will vote for in the future.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    Germany voted in Hitler who was most certainly worse than Trump, and they recovered completely in just a few decades. I doubt you’ve told any Germans lately that you don’t trust who they might vote in in the future (though current events suggest perhaps you should). America will sort itself out, and the world keeps spinning.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    I hope you are wrong I don't want a terrorist state as an ally

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    Being responsible of millions of death make you a terrorist state

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    As an American I have no doubt that our relationship with our allies will improve once we restore some sanity to the White House

    As a Canadian, let me assure you that it will not.

    I hope we as a country cut ties with you forever. Because the fact you let this happen at all, means no countgry should ever trust you from not letting it happen again.

    Until you fix the foundation of your issues, I speak for a LOT of people that say "You're completely dead to us".

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    I can assure you that it will. Your country will absolutely positively not cut ties with America forever. I’m sure you speak for yourself, but let us not forget that nearly a quarter of Canadians support Trump. Don’t think for a second we forgot about the Freedom Convoy either lol.

    If you look at what America is going through and your first thought is “they’re crazy, that can’t happen here”, I have some bad news for you.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    You don't realize how dangerous it is to treat politics and elections as predictable. You talk here about complexity, yet you make simple statements like 'conservatives have not been relevant in over 10 years, therefore the threat is not there.' Here is an example from Canada: the Parti Québécois lost relevancy in 2011; in 2022 they only won 3 seats, but now in 2026 they are very near forming a majority.

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