rockSlayer comments on Ms. Rachel to Match Macklemore’s $1 Million Donation to Support Palestine: ‘I Invite Every Wealthy White Celebrity’ to Do the Same

Ms. Rachel to Match Macklemore’s $1 Million Donation to Support Palestine: ‘I Invite Every Wealthy White Celebrity’ to Do the Same (variety.com)

submitted 1 month ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/usa@lemmy.ml

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[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 month ago* (21 children)

A fatal mistake for leftists is to narrow in on only class. Class is extremely important, but it's not everything. As working class people, we have to acknowledge the harm that occurs to people in minority groups. If our class-based politics aren't intersectional with queer, black, brown, women, and other political minorities, we will not achieve a classless society

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[–] gualudengren@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago (16 children)

You should read

-W.E.B. Du Bois, Black Reconstruction in America

-Oliver C. Cox, Caste, Class, and Race: A Study in Social Dynamics

-Friedrich Engels, The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State

-Lise Vogel, Marxism and the Oppression of Women: Toward a Unitary Theory

Racial and Gender discrimination is a direct product of class relations not a second system operating alongside it.

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[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago (9 children)

That doesn't mean we ignore racial and gender discrimination to focus only on class.

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[–] gualudengren@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 month ago (8 children)

I'm not saying to ignore them but to really understand them you have to start with class as it is the bedrock upon which racial and gender discrimination is built. They are not separate systems but simply sub and super sets of the same system.

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[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago (7 children)

Nah, we can start with all of it, we don't need to sideline gender and racial discrimination in favor of class first. We've been there, we've done that. We elevated pieces of shit like Cesar Chavez despite him raping women and little girls because class issues are most important. Leftists make a dire mistake at elevating class over all other discrimination based on faulty readings of leftist ideology.

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[–] gualudengren@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago (6 children)

I don't think you're really understanding what I'm saying.

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[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago* (5 children)

I understand what you're saying and I don't think you misunderstand it. I think that there are large swaths of leftists who misunderstand what it means to build on class issues while including gender and racial issues. That we should only focus on class issues and then once that's solved, we can move on to racial and sexist issues. It's a faulty line of thinking. We can move in tandem on these issues and we should.

There is a history of highlighting class issues over all others to the detriment of the movement, like with Cesar Chavez.

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[–] gualudengren@lemmy.ml 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

That we should only focus on class issues and then once that’s solved, we can move on to racial and sexist issues.

That's not at all what I'm saying. So I was right you didn't understand what I was saying.

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[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

I already said I think you understand the point I'm making, but there are a lot of leftists that would read your comments and think that we need to focus solely on class first before anything else.

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[–] gualudengren@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Ok so you agree then that when analysing these issues we have to start with their relation to class? That gender and racial discrimination are at their core subsets of the class struggle which makes up the bedrock upon which they are built?

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[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

I agree, but in practice many leftists never come back to gender and racial discrimination when talking about any of this - it's always class solidarity over all else. That argument is here in this very thread - that women and POC are inherently being protected and fought for within the class war and that's not quite right. Oftentimes racial and sexual discrimination are a mere afterthought, but we cannot abandon or ignore our sisters and brothers lest we lose them in this fight. Rockslayer is better at expressing this than I am admittedly.

That's how we end up allowing our leaders in this fight to subjugate and rape women and little girls while holding him up as a shining example of working class rights.

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[–] gualudengren@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago

That's fair I'm glad we agree so.

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[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Yes, but the system of class oppression manifests differently for these diverse groups, which means that all individuals will have a unique perspective on these systems of class oppression. A queer person has a different experience from a black person. A black trans woman will have a unique experience that is intersectional to queer, black, and women's struggles for liberation.

For us to dismantle class oppression, we need to understand and address how class is used to oppress minorities

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[–] gualudengren@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 month ago (4 children)

As I replied to the other person

I’m not saying to ignore them but to really understand them you have to start with class as it is the bedrock upon which racial and gender discrimination is built. They are not separate systems but simply sub and super sets of the same system.

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[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 1 month ago (3 children)

In that sense, I agree. If we start on the basis of class, we'll understand the dynamics at play that drives discrimination

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[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

we’ll understand the dynamics at play that drives discrimination

We already know if we stop and listen to women and POC about these issues.

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[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

Absolutely. As a privileged member of the working class, I need to listen to the people I'm trying to help and follow their lead. It's my job to center their struggle and support them, not steal the lime light as a white savior

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[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

You get it, thank you <3

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[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago

I only wish I had more than one upvote for this comment. You are exactly right.

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[–] FlexibleToast@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Are all those minority groups part of the 99% being oppressed by the Epstein class? Yes. They are part of the classist system. Obviously they're included, nobody should have to suffer homelessness, starvation, lack of healthcare, etc...

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[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

A fatal mistake for leftists is to narrow in on only class.

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[–] FlexibleToast@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

And I didn't agree with that take the last time it was said. I thought woke 1.0 was over? Let me know when you're ready to stop in fighting and start fighting the actual oppressors.

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