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Best System Possible (lemmy.ml)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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[–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

Define need? They took what they could get and often times starved because they couldn't get what they needed, the extinction of many mega fauna happened before agriculture and over hunting was probably some level of factor even if it was simply the final nail. Let's not take the Noble Savage BS and apply it to our ancestors it's stupid when it's done to native peoples and it's stupid when it's done to ancient humans, people have been people (intellectually) for up to 200,000 years we are not so different and are in many ways driven by the same things. These wealth hoarders in ancient times were probably great when wealth was food and food was survival, the problem now is that such math no longer works.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Disagree strongly. Some cultures value sustainability more than others, especially more than Western cultures.

    I've seen the noble savage trope used too often by pro-colonists seeking to support their materialism, resource hoarding and genocidal behavior with the same argument you're using ie. All people are essentially the same across time and cultures and you all would have done the same with what we had if it were you.

    No. Western culture has set us on a path to extinction via climate change the likes of which we have never seen before. Western culture financializes and monetizes everything (even that which sacred, spiritually meaningful or has mostly artistic value) by worshipping at the altar of open markets and free trade. Its why so many people in the West have disproportionate wealth but aren't really happy. Its why chronic illness has exploded in the past decade. Its a culture that often takes the life out of living and tries to fill the void with hedonistic consumerism and materialism. Its a culture that does not penalize or discincentivize waste and celebrates / promotes excess consumption.

    Not to be too antagonistic, there are many positives it has brought about also.

    But there is no question our ancestors did one thing much better than we do ie. sustainability. Climate change is all the proof you need for this.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I acknowledge that different cultures have had different values, capabilities, and creeds my problem was acting like hunter gathers as a socio economic grouping is more sustainable. There are plenty of examples of tribes and even civilizations (for example Skara Brae) destroying themselves due to over consumption of resources. My point wasn't that all people are the same but that all civilizations and cultures are capable of the worst mankind has to offer, because over 200,000 some odd years we haven't evolved all that much.

    Yes it was the West that came up with industrialization that put us into our current predicament with climate change, but frankly speaking if a different culture mega grouping did it I can't really see it ending much better unless they lagged out it's advancement. But if that were to happen the European forever wars would've probably refined it and effectively done the same thing they did with gunpowder.

    Also I suspect that the reason a lot of westerners are so unhappy is probably due to the amount of time people work, for example here in the US most people work 5 days a week at 8 hour minimum for the entire year not factoring sick and vacation days. I kinda suspect that is not good for the human psyche, also wealth is probably a minimum factor my 2001 Toyota Tacoma is an old beater here in the US but is probably worth more than anything a random North Korean owns for example. Also while I will agree consumerism is a problem at least on the scale we have I disagree with materialism, materialistic philosophy even when spured on by theology has been one of mankind's great boons, be it the scholars of the Islamic golden age laying the foundations of modern medicine or the Jesuits physicists of the 20th century.

    And finally I feel like bringing up climate change in reference to our ancestors is a bit of a non sequitur, effecting climate change almost requires a massive amount of technologic and societal build up required. Seriously it's fucken absurd the amount of shit we needed just to get to the first practical steam engines, the metallurgy required alone makes it impossible for basically everyone before the 700s to get close. Also I say almost impossible because the Mongols killed so many people that they caused the climate to cool since they weren't burning things anymore.

    Climate change is more or less a new fuck up for us to figure out, like I said comparing the capabilities let alone needs of even a bronze age society for example to a fully industrial one is pretty much apples to orange when it comes to tech. Our ancestors didn't need to consider global warming because it was quite literally unknown on every level to them. Not to say there's nothing to learn, youd think with the amount of beef we consume we'd at least USE the leather but no fake oil shit galore.

    Sorry for the paragraphs dump, ya gave me a lot to work with but I guess I did the same to you. Also if I seem scattered in this comment and the last it's because I got food poisoning shat out 10 pounds of water and have had a headache since friday so thinking is hard.

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