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[–] 61 points 2 months ago (49 children)

Karl Marx was alive during the civil war. We know what he and his fellow communists thought about it. In fact, some of his fellow Communists were Forty-Eighters: German Radicals who were exiled after the failed revolutions of 1848, many of whom fought in the civil war.

One of them was August Willich, an ardent Communist who thought Marx of all people was too conservative. A "Tankie" of his day.

The German Communists, like Willich, who fought in the American Civil War believed that the war against slavery, and in the side of the Union, was a Social Revolution against the reactionary landed gentry of the south.

Many Forty-Eighters settled in Southwest, Ohio. If you go to the rapidly gentrifying Cincinnati neighborhood of Over The Rhine, it's called that because it was originally made up of forty-eighter German immigrants, who became active participants in the underground railroad, and helped set up social programs to educate freed slaves, and provide them with housing and such.

So the only person lacking critical thinking here is you OP. You've made up a guy in your head, to get mad at.

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 2 months ago (30 children)

    Oh friend, you have this wrong, I agree 100%, sorry for not spelling it out! This meme is about the blind modern day teamist support for any "anti-west" regime, no matter how vile.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (26 children)

    Don't talk down to me. You made up a guy to get mad at. There is no human being on earth who holds the position you claim "Tankies" hold.

    Delete this post.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 2 months ago (20 children)

    Delete this post.

    Nah, this meme is about the Russia-supporting dorks we see so much of. You don't want to see more jokes about losers who twist themselves into intellectually and morally bankrupt shapes to defend authoritarianism, block button's right there, because I'm gonna keep clowning on em :)

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  • [+] 4 points 2 months ago* (4 children)
  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    What I find so sad about you tankies is how you just put everything in categories, like "those evil liberals" (sure the propaganda in the USA is also plain stupid, like communism used as some term of scaring someone etc.)

    That the world is more complex, and authoritarian means are not the solution to establish healthy socialism long term... Russia or Puttler is purely destructive on basically all scales (now unquestionably joined by USA with their entirely idiotic leader)

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago

    you tankies is how you just put everything in categories, like “those evil liberals”

    Russia or Puttler is purely destructive on basically all scales

    OP: "Tankies be like supporting slave holders"

    Is there like a single introspective thought rattling in your brain? Or still constipated?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (15 children)

    Why can't you explain what you think Russia should have done in response to NATO's actions?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (9 children)

    Funny thing, if Russia had just done nothing, they would be better off in every conceivable metric.

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  • [+] 5 points 2 months ago (9 children)
  • [–] -3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Sooo stupid, Russia wouldn't have been a target, they possess too many nuclear weapons to risk having war with them (directly). You're being propagandized... Russian trolls are going brrr right now to destabilise the world sadly, result: more fascistic tendencies (further fuelled by capitalism...)

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago

    Russia wouldn’t have been a target

    "Just trust the most prolific invader in the world, which has been constantly invading and breaking promises, to not attack their enemy this particular time, even after admitting to pushing for war with said enemy".

    they possess too many nuclear weapons

    Didn't stop NATO from antagonising the USSR, the PRC, the DPRK.
    Also, NATO has been literally targeting civilians in Russia, attacking nuclear power plants, and committing other war crimes, with no nuclear strikes so far.
    Safe to say that you overestimate how much of a deterrence nuclear weapons are.

    You’re being propagandized

    This is said by a person that can only regurgitate propaganda of the most expensive propaganda machine in the world.

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  • [–] -3 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    NATO has been (self-admittedly) pushing for the war with Russia for years.

    No, they haven't.

    Also, consider that your suggestion didn’t work for, for example, Iran. Iran did nothing, and yet, you empire still attacked it.

    Russia has nukes. Iran doesn't.

    Better how?

    They would be at peace, and the myth of their military might would still be unbroken.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    No, they haven’t.

    Haha. Decades of NATO higher-ups saying that expanding towards Russia will cause war with Russia, refusing Russia's membership in NATO, and admitting that the war was preventable by Ukraine not pushing to join NATO is somehow indicative of not pushing for war with Russia.

    Russia has nukes. Iran doesn’t.

    And? Sure, that does make NATO more cautious, but NATO has still been targeting civilians, has been carrying out strikes at nuclear power plants, has been committing war crimes against Russia, all without Russia using nukes. Going to also remind you that NATO also pushed for war with the USSR when the USSR did also have nukes, and did attack the USSR in various ways.

    They would be at peace,

    Haha. You trust your empire that has been constantly invading everywhere, doing genocides, carrying out terror attacks (including via DAESH) to be at peace in this case? Why?

    and the myth of their military might would still be unbroken.

    Considering that Russia has been beating NATO in this conflict, it seems that the only myths that got broken were of NATO's capabilities against near-peers.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Decades of NATO higher-ups saying that expanding towards Russia will cause war with Russia,

    Nations can join whichever alliance they wish, assuming said alliance lets them. What you're describing here is a condemnation of Russian imperialism, not pushing for war.

    refusing Russia’s membership in NATO

    Russia never applied for NATO membership, there was nothing to refuse.

    and admitting that the war was preventable by Ukraine not pushing to join NATO

    By the same logic, world war 2 could have been prevented by just giving the Nazis whatever they want.

    Sure, that does make NATO more cautious, but NATO has still been targeting civilians, has been carrying out strikes at nuclear power plants, has been committing war crimes against Russia, all without Russia using nukes

    That's not true. Russia has been doing those things to Ukraine constantly throughout the Ukraine war, though.

    Considering that Russia has been beating NATO in this conflict, it seems that the only myths that got broken were of NATO’s capabilities against near-peers.

    NATO isn't a belligerent in this war. Your statement is nonsense.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Nations can join whichever alliance they wish

    Here, you claim that it was okay to join, for example, the German Axis.

    What you’re describing here is a condemnation of Russian imperialism, not pushing for war.

    Haha. "Us breaking these promises to Russia will cause Russia to go to war with us", "if we didn't make Ukraine join NATO, there wouldn't be the war". Really not pushing for war, yeah.

    Also, cute how you talk about "Russian imperialism" while also supporting the gang of invaders of Iraq and Afghanistan (and more). Going to remind you that NATO is the most prolific invader in the world and is the primary force for imperialism in the world.

    Russia never applied for NATO membership, there was nothing to refuse.

    Formally? Sure. But NATO did let Russian leadership know that that wouldn't happen during talks.

    Either way, Russia joining NATO would have been bad for the rest of the world due to what NATO is - an imperialist alliance that acts to colonially subjugate the Global South.

    By the same logic, world war 2 could have been prevented by just giving the Nazis whatever they want.

    Pfft. You are the one claiming that Russia should have given the nazis whatever they wanted instead of taking action against them. You are the one that says that, for example, joining the German Axis was not an act of aggression and that nobody should have taken action against that.

    That’s not true.

    Ukraine: bombs buses with children, school dormitories, nuclear power plants, brazenly does things like operation SpiderWeb which perfidiously use civilians to carry out military action
    You: none of that happened.

    NATO isn’t a belligerent in this war.

    This is just laughable, especially considering the admittance that this war was completely preventable on NATO's side.


    Also, it's weird how much you want to whitewash the most prolific invader in the world.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Kinda sad how deep russian propaganda is... But what do I expect of tankies anyway...

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Weird how the people who just regurgitate what the most expensive propaganda machine in the world tells them, and who reliably believe things like Iraq having WMDs complain about "Russian propaganda".

    Also, it is such an amusing defensive reaction, as if calling something "Russian propaganda" makes things untrue.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Eh lol maybe just end this stupid war! Where they are the unquestionable aggressor of...

    This war is so stupid on many levels... But Puttler cannot back down anymore without loosing his face, kinda sad situation...

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Eh lol maybe just end this stupid war!

    It did try to negotiate peace, but the European powers that are the masters of Ukraine right now do not understand that language, it seems.

    Where they are the unquestionable aggressor of…

    So, you are saying that NATO pushing for war with Russia, carrying out a coup in Ukraine, breaking promises to not expand towards Russia, and generally being the most prolific invader in the world is not aggression? Haha.


    So, what should a state do when the most prolific invader in the world starts amassing troops on that state's borders (or otherwise in position, like in the case of Iran), especially after a coup against a neighbouring state?

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Lol peace could be established tomorrow when they back out of their invasion.

    I hate USA's world policing as well and their imperalism, but this conflict would not exist, when Putler didn't get love fantasies of Hitler... You can try to turn it as much as you like, russia is the aggressor, they didn't had to invade (the krim in the first palce btw.).

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    peace could be established tomorrow when they back out of their invasion.

    NATO would keep up its aggression against Russia, so peace can't be achieved that way (unless you think that the rest of the world being subjugated by NATO is "peace").

    Meanwhile, the European powers could have agree to peace at many points, including in March, 2022, and including before 2022, and including by not doing the coup in 2013-2014.

    I hate USA’s world policing as well

    Firstly, you still believe whatever it says about its enemies. If you were alive back then, you would have believed Nayirah's testimony.
    Secondly, calling colonialism "world policing" is incredibly disingenuous and whitewashy.

    but this conflict would not exist, when Putler didn’t get love fantasies of Hitler

    Incredibly weird to claim this, considering that you support governments that worship personal friends of Hitler's, shutzstaffel troops, and other participants in the Holocaust and the Lebensraum.

    Also, it's very obvious that the conflict would not have happened without NATO pushing for it.

    russia is the aggressor they didn’t had to invade.

    You are yet to explain what Russia should have done.

    (the krim in the first palce btw.)

    So, you think that the people of Crimea do not deserve self-determination? Do consider that even NATO studies agree that they wanted to split from Ukraine and join Russia.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Can you link to a post or comment from a communist who supports the confederates?

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (12 children)
    I am not OP but a Black anarchist vanguard.

    I wouldn't mention the latter occasionally because you're still using lemmy, so you can't see my «Politics» label.

    I sat down to review all your historical assertions without a single citation. Meaning, I won't cite back if you don't.

    Are there Achtundvierziger today, or similar vanguard parties?

    Godric maybe projecting the trends a sees from camp threadiverse comments & posts, but do we even have a contemporary vanguard party doing praxis? PSL legitimately doesn't count, so if you bring them as an example, we have nothing further to discuss. You can also work with Godric to end campist rhetorizing moving forward. Whenever you both see campism, hold them accountable. I believe all of us🧵 want to end campism. I in particularly want to see Dengism邓理论 gone forever.

    Be aware that I use this instance exactly because I have given up on 习 🥾👅. So honestly don't bring it up.

    I am open for anything else.

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  • [–] 19 points 2 months ago (11 children)

    Any additional questions?

    Yeah, what in the ever living fuck are you talking about? This AI listicle-ass comment is genuinely illegible to me. I don't understand what you're trying to say

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  • [+] -7 points 2 months ago (10 children)

    You've never seen an ordered list?

    Want me to essay it?

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    I totally skimmed what you had written as it was pretty inchoherent. If your politics have become so esoteric that Lemmy users can't parse them, that's a 'you' problem and you might want to examine it.

    Like, the barrier to entry of Lemmy filters users here such that: most people here tend to have above average intelligence and reading comprehension.

    So, you're either posting AI crap, or have gotten so twisted on some kind of propaganda that you can't meaningfully comminciate with others. If you're actually human you shoild probably unplug from your political ideology source and talk to an old wise hippy or something.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    The ordered list in that comment serves no purpose, as the items are not even properly grouped. It just hurts readability.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    They are grouped by topics 1 respondent, 2 politics, 3 literacy confirmation, 4 thesis, 5 warning, 6 intersection check, 7 commentary, 8 openness to dialogue

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago* (6 children)

    So, at the very least:

    • 1 and 2 pertain to the same topic. 2 even continues the same sentence.
    • 4 and 5 should be grouped together, as 5 refers to 4.
    • 6 and 7 should be grouped together. In part because they both are just regurgitation of propaganda made by y the same people that sold you on Nayirah's testimony, Iraq WMDs and the like. (Also, have to chuckle at the "campism" but when you very openly engage in pro-NATO campism.)
    • Just using standard paragraphs and not an ordered list would be more readable, since you are not enumerating anything, nor is there a good case for referring to each of these items by the numbers outside of the conversation about how useless the ordered list is here.
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  • [–] -3 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    1 differentiates from op, 2 outlines my politics which may also differ from op. Continued sentences is something everyone does, no?

    I can def. combine4&5, but will SpookyBogMonster keep quiet about point 4 if 5 is the only choice?

    6&7 need to be separated, as 6 is my intersection for Godric’s plea to end campist rhetorics, not my personal antidengist praxis.

    you very openly engage in pro-NATO campism

    whence?

    nor is there a good case for referring to each of these items by the numbers outside of the conversation

    brevity, citation, referencing, value, formatting, etc..

    I’ll edit an essay format you then.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    1 differentiates from op, 2 outlines my politics

    Yes, but the way you separated them makes things less readable. They should be combined into the same sentence, not into two separate numbered list items.

    I can def. combine4&5, but will SpookyBogMonster keep quiet about point 4 if 5 is the only choice?

    Not clear what you mean here.

    6&7 need to be separated, as 6 is my intersection for Godric’s plea to end campist rhetorics

    Firstly, what do you mean by "intersection for a plea"? I suspect you think that the word "intersection" means something other than what it means.
    Secondly, Godric isn't making any pleas here. Godric is simply running propaganda for the most prolific invader in the world and hates on socialists.

    whence?

    I will assume you meant "where?", and not "whence?". I suspect that you think that those words are synonyms.
    Like, for example, when you claimed that Salvador Allende did a genocide. Also, complaints about "campism" are usually just support for colonialism (highly doubt that that is not the case for you). I can find more examples.

    brevity, citation, referencing, value, formatting, etc…

    It isn't any more brief than using standard paragraphs, nor does it simplify referencing, as one would just use markdown quotation for that here anyway.
    Not at all sure what you mean by "value" here.
    Your chosen way of formatting texts just makes them less readable.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

    Godric is simply running propaganda for the most prolific invader in the world and hates on socialists.

    Then you can see why i made distinctions for points 1,2,5,6&7.

    Whence.

    you claimed that Salvador Allende did a genocide.

    Whence?

    Also, complaints about “campism” are usually just support for colonialism (highly doubt that that is not the case for you).

    They aren't, since I made points 1,2,5&7 pretty clear. Unless you think PSL abused antidengist black anarchists are colonists.

    I can find more examples.

    For yourself, a narrative, my question, anticolonialism, anti PRC, anti PSL, kittenzrulz123/emberkitty, Chileans, slavers, campists, or?

    Your chosen way of formatting texts just makes them less readable.

    I already essayed the former reply just for you, and applied your recommendations. SpookyBogMonster, kittenzrulz123, and you can mostly reread and address it if you want.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Then you can see why i made distinctions for points 1,2,5,6&7.

    No.

    Whence?

    The word is "where", not "whence". "Whence" means "where from", not "where".
    Alternatively, you could use "when" in this context.

    To answer your question, around the 30th of July, you were repeatedly asserting that kittenzrulz did apologia for a supposed genocide by Salvador Allende (among other things).

    They aren’t, since I made points 1,2,5&7 pretty clear.

    I mean, you do seem to complain about the PRC, as well as about the USSR a lot here, despite them being some of the most prominent anti-colonial forces during relevant timeframes. Judging by your assertions like how Allende did a genocide, as well as similar ones, your hatred for them seems to simply stem from your pro-NATO campism and the fact that your empire told you to hate those polities.

    Unless you think PSL abused antidengist black anarchists are colonists.

    This isn't even a grammatically sound sentence. Frankly, what is up with your English?
    Are you asserting that the PSL claimed that pro-NATO "anarchists" are pro-colonialism? If so, then yeah. Those people support the colonial metropole(s) efforts to colonially subjugate the Global South, which does make them supporters of colonialism.

    For yourself, a narrative, my question, anticolonialism, anti PRC, anti PSL, kibblebits, Chileans, slavers, campists, or?

    What are you even asking here?

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    No.

    Then you are literary handicapped.

    whence adverb

    1. from what place or source

    You made me cite a dictionary, since you're literary handicapped.

    around the 30th of July, you were repeatedly asserting that kittenzrulz did apologia for a supposed genocide by Salvador Allende (among other things)

    Source your claims, since you're literary handicapped.

    you do seem to complain about the PRC, as well as about the USSR a lot here, despite them being some of the most prominent anti-colonial forces during relevant timeframes.

    Anti colonial forcing the Ukrainian genocide, Filipino larceny, Japanese island debates, Indian border bounties, do I go for more examples?

    What are you even asking here?

    For whom are the examples you wanted bring up for, what purpose does it serve than blatantly sidetracking gish gallop?

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Then you are literary handicapped.

    Ah, ableism. Incredibly misplaced, to boot.
    What you are saying is that you had to separate those points of your original list because of Godric's actions that were contrary to what you originally claimed. How those things are connected, you are yet to explain.

    You made me cite a dictionary, since you’re literary handicapped.

    More ableism.

    "From what source?" also doesn't work as a question in those context. You could have either asked "where/when did I say that?", or made the request "cite me saying/implying that". At best, if we are to keep "whence", it should be "Whence does it follow?"

    Also, "literary" and "literally" (and "literarily", for that matter) are not synonyms, and "literary" does not work in this context.

    Source your claims

    Here's you complaining about being banned for trolling in a memes community by making the aforementioned assertions. The context is provided in the comments, and does include people quoting your "Salvador Allende's genocide" thing.

    Anti colonial forcing the Ukrainian genocide

    Except there hasn't been a "Ukrainian genocide" apart from the Lebensraum+the Holocaust, carried out by Germany and their allies (including such groups as the OUN).
    If you want to claim that the famine of 1932 in the USSR (which, I remind you, affected the entire union, rather than some particular group (unlike, say Churchill's Bengal famine, or the Irish potato famine), which is what we would expect from a genocide) was somehow a genocide, then you should present your study to the historians that specialise on that famine, as they have come to a very different conclusion from you.

    Filipino larceny

    The what?

    Japanese island debates

    It's silly how you think that the Kuril islands should belong to unrepentant genocidaires that are under control of NATO.
    What is your argument here, even?

    Indian border bounties

    What "bounties"?

    do I go for more examples?

    You are yet to provide even one example for why we should supposedly consider the USSR and the PRC as bad. At least try to elaborate on what you have already claimed.

    For whom are the examples you wanted bring up for

    I am speaking with you, am I not?

    what purpose does it serve than blatantly sidetracking gish gallop?

    A Gish gallop would be if I just kept throwing different examples without elaborating. Kind of like you did in your last comment.
    Wait, do you even know what "Gish gallop" is, and why it has "gallop" in the name?

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  • [+] -7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    A lot of people in the west think that Communists/Socialists are all leftwing, when there's plenty of conservative traditionalist Communists.

    There just more modern and outside the us, in places like China, Africa, Asia, and South America.

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  • [+] -13 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Y'all really can't help yourselves but to come into every anti-tankie post in the fediverse to call the OP stupid, huh?

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    There's folk who can't help but make anti-tankie posts in the fediverse, which specifically and directly are requests for that kind of responsive content.

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