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[+] -7 points 2 months ago (44 children)

Denmark and Sweden both completely decriminalized same-sex marriages before WWII even ended. So that's just not true.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Sweden still considered Homosexuality as a mental illness and was a country that practiced eugenics far into the 70s

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  • [+] -10 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Beautiful we've come full circle to exactly what the point is.

    Government doctrine vs cultural norms. It doesn't matter what the government says, it matters what the culture does. Half of what the USSR and communists claimed to stand for, they did not which is evident in their actions - anti-colonialism/engages in colonialism, pro women's rights/women still lack representation and feminism repressed, pro worker's rights/equal exploitation for all.

    So maybe it doesn't matter what the government says, maybe we have to analyze the culture and where it ended up today to see the changes and the impact of that change.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

    Ideas do not exist independently of their material conditions. By shifting from an analysis of material conditions and the social relations that spring from them to one of "culture," you are placing ideas outside of their context in material reality, and moving to the realm of supernatural thinking. In other words, this is pure idealism and is anti-scientific. Idealism has more in common with fascism than it does with socialism, so I really do think you should be careful. Fascists use the "culture" argument to argue against immigration, in favor of colonialism, etc.

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  • [+] -7 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Nope I'm viewing the whole picture as it is, a whole. The claims and movements of a government do not happen separate from the culture and often you look at the culture to understand the real experience of people living under a government. Many places outlawed things that they didn't or couldn't actually enforce - homosexuality, drug use, freedom of speech for examples.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    You aren't viewing the whole picture, though. You're abstracting the Soviet Union from its historical context and measuring it against standards of an entirely different historical era. Further, again, you are placing far too much of an emphasis on culture while treating it as though it exists independent from the society and the social relations compelled by it. This is an idealist argument, not a materialist one.

    Here's a simple exercise: why did women's rights dramatically expand upon the implementation of socialism?

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  • [–] -5 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Honestly for the same reason it did in the west. There was a massive need for economic resources, manpower. And limiting half your workforce because culture was stupid and everyone realized that.

    This is what was happening globally at the time as well. Even before the West made laws to support women in workforces, there were plenty of women working far before that too. Because laws aren't the only thing that matters, culture does.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago

    The economic basis of capitalism also reinforces the nuclear family, as you can treat domestic labor as unpaid labor for recreating the paid labor of the male worker. Socialism brought with it profound cultural changes as well as economic changes that put the Soviets ahead of the west, despite the west being capitalist for longer than Russia was.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (36 children)

    Meanwhile Alan Turing was castrated and driven to suicide. I said consistently, not permanently and in all cases.

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  • [–] -3 points 2 months ago (35 children)

    And thousands were imprisoned for "pederasty" see: homosexuality into work camps and their stories completely repressed because information control was a massive tenet of the Sovier Union. While today, everyone knows of Alan Turing's story and he is championed as a hero in the west for what he did because the west did in fact have plenty more freedoms and were much more progressive in many more ways than the soviet union.

    Someone else in this thread, maybe you I'm not sure, claimed the west referred to all homosexuals as pedophiles. The Soviet Union did the same. And people today are still acting like they weren't going after homosexuals, they were only targeting pedophiles which is completely untrue.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (34 children)

    The soviet union does not exist today. The soviet union's treatment of homosexuals was far more leniant than western countries in general, which coincides with being enormously socially progressive when it comes to ethnicity and gender as well. Nobody is arguing that the soviet union of the 1930s was progressive when it comes to the LGBTQIA+ community if compared to the US today, but such a comparison is ludicrous to begin with.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 months ago (33 children)

    Work camps are not progressive.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (14 children)

    Work camps

    You mean prison. Work camp is nonsense used to demonise non western countries as barbaric (and often used in an attempt to evoke images of the nazi extermination machine even when they are not at all the same). Also what was progressive in the 40s 50s and 60s would be regressive by today's standard yet that doesn't mean it wasn't progressive for the time.

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  • [+] -7 points 2 months ago (13 children)
  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (12 children)

    Almost like progressive for it's time doesn't mean progressivenand perfect for eternity ?!?!?! Please read what people are saying before responding.

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  • [+] -8 points 2 months ago (11 children)

    And progressive for it's time doesn't mean the only progressive or the only one doing any progress. Please adjust the lens to the center for more accurate viewing.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    Whene did anyone say anything like that?

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  • [+] -9 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    The entire thread arguing that the USSR was progressive and the west was not? Sorry can you read?

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    The USSR was more progressive than the west at the time, that doesn't mean the west wasn't progressive at all or the the USSR was the only one? Are you sure you can read?

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  • [+] -8 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    That is literally what is being argued. A constant push to express one is more progressive and the other isn't. If you read my initial comment I make it very clear a lot of it is a global shift and some of that shift did not stick in certain places because of certain actions the government engaged in, suppressing progressive movements being a major one.

    Can you read?

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    Your initial comment was stupid.

    "The USSR was way more progressive on racial equality, women's rights, workplace rights, anticolonialism etc but also they weren't perfect and thus can be equated with the west who were still actively engaging in colonialism, genocide, slavery, segregation etc" it's ridiculous. The USSR was one of the most progressive forces of the time the fact the west had minimal progression at the same time does not make them comparable.

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  • [+] -8 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Sure the USSR was a paradise for everyone. Nothing bad happened and nobody was ever hurt.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago

    Okay that was actuality a great marketing campaign for Doomdays, I'm already hating the villain so much right now, I'm so fucking ready to see Thor and the gang beating Doom to death.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago*

    It's worth noting that the USSR ended the Gulag system in the 1960s while capitalist countries like the united states continue to use prison as a means for cheap (practically unpaid) forced labor. Soviet prisoners were also paid comparable wages to free workers not only out of principle but so they would not be severely disadvantaged once out of prison.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (16 children)

    Soviet prisons were generally more progressive than western prisons, especially considering western countries were largely colonial powers (and are now neocolonial powers). Soviets even viewed handcuffs as barbaric and paid prisoners wages comparable to outside wages, the compulsion for work was out of a belief that work itself is good. They didn't treat prison labor the same way the US does today, for pennies a day.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 months ago (16 children)
  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Oh shit, nice homophobia. Mask off for you? Either way, yes, the soviet prisons were progressive compared to western peers, especially considering they weren't committing genocide around the world like the west was. Read Russian Justice.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (14 children)

    Jesus christ take the cock out of you’re mouth.

    Nice homophobia bigot. Go fuck yourself.

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  • [+] -4 points 2 months ago (14 children)
  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (12 children)

    Still homophobic to say shit like that asshole again go fuck yourself.

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  • [–] -5 points 2 months ago (11 children)

    "he said a bad word, everything he said was wrong!"

    Whatever gang, cya

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    "I can't argue back at all because my arguments are shit and relies on strawmanning and making shit up!"

    Fucking debatebros, you're all terrible

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  • [+] -6 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    "Fucking bloodthirsty racist shitlibs!!"

    -continues to support your brand of colonialism and oppression I guess.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    How many times are you going to leave? I thought debate was over?

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  • [+] -6 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Didn't you also say cya? Go away lol

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] -5 points 2 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (3 children)
  • [+] -7 points 2 months ago (3 children)
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