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The US-Canada Trainwreck and the Limits of American Power (talkingpointsmemo.com)
submitted 2 months ago by to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[–] -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

No that’s not true, even UK has heavy restrictions on their use. And this is under 2 Prime ministers!

What I see instead is that UK is allowing US bombers to make multiple bombing runs on Iran from its bases.

Afaik there is zero cooperation from France and Spain, and Germany has been difficult enough that Trump has threatened to close the Rammstein base, which is the biggest air base USA has in Europe.

This is mostly true for Spain, even then there were a couple of military airplanes in support roles landing and taking off from Moron. So it seems the claimed airspace closure was more of a gentleman's agreement rather than a strictly enforced prohibition.

But France and Germany absolutely did allow support airplanes in support roles to use their airfields. The exact nature of the operations is not known but it's probably to do with recon and maybe refuelling. The reason bombing runs were not on the table is mostly because these countries don't host any US military bases with suitable runways to support heavy bombers.

Greece allowed a US carrier to dock and repair in between combat operations.

Bulgaria and Romania explicitly allowed the US to use their bases for refuelling and recon.

All of this for a war that is poised to inflict heavy damage on European economies via skyrocketing energy and fertilizer prices. If European countries truly were "independent and free" allies of the US, they could just say no, like Spain - after all this is clearly not a defensive war and doesn't benefit them in any way. Instead we got a bunch of face-saving claims and a permission to perform whatever support operations are needed.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    UK is allowing US bombers to make multiple bombing runs on Iran from its bases.

    Yes and that is highly problematic, and actually illegal for UK to allow! Except those runs are classified as defensive, but I don't see how you make that argument when the war is 100% the Americans being the aggressor. They can just go home, and the war will be over. USA has no need to be there, and Iran is just defending themselves. There is no way I can see to reasonably call those runs defensive.

    But France and Germany absolutely did allow support airplanes in support roles to use their airfields.

    IDK about France, but the Rammstein base is American, so I don't know how much control Germany has over what USA does with it. But I know they've made problems enough for Trump to be extremely pissed.

    Bulgaria and Romania explicitly allowed the US to use their bases for refuelling and recon.

    That is understandable IMO, refueling and recon are not acts of war. So I think they have found that a sensible balance to not seem unreasonable.

    All of this...

    Seems a bit like a glass half empty or half full opinion. I agree zero would be better. But besides not actually helping, it seems to me that most European countries have done a lot to prevent USA from having an easy time. This is very different from how it used to be in the cooperation/alliance between Europe and USA.
    This is a very strong signal from Europe that we don't agree with what USA is doing.

    AFAIK all EU countries have declared the war against Iran illegal! I don't recall that ever happening before.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    IDK about France, but the Rammstein base is American, so I don’t know hoe much control Germany has over what USA does with it.

    I think a stance like that of Spain would be ideal: close the airspace to US military aircraft. Let them use the base however the fuck they want.

    I know they’ve made problems enough for Trump to be extremely pissed.

    I feel like it had more to do with Merz making public statements humiliating trump. There was (and still is!) plenty of US military aircraft landing and taking off from Rammstein. The clown-in-chief is a narcissist who can't stand public criticism or humiliation of his person, so a reaction like this sounds up his alley.

    That is understandable IMO, refueling and recon are not acts of war. So I think they have found that a sensible balance to not seem unreasonable.

    Both are logistical support for a war that is poised to seriously hurt their economies.

    Look at it another way: what would you say if Romania let Russian spy aircraft use their airfields for recon over Ukraine, and Russian support aircraft fly refuelling missions for bombers, in exchange for "military protection" and "economic support"? Would it still be a "sensible balance" then?

    it seems to me that most European countries have done a lot to prevent USA from having an easy time.

    Idunno, almost all of them allowed the US to use their territories to wage an illegal war. Whether actual bombing runs were permitted is a bit immaterial here just like the "defensive" label on those operations. Recon and logistics are necessary components of a war, and allowing the US to perform them makes no sense for a war that will hurt you.

    This is a very strong signal from Europe that we don’t agree with what USA is doing.

    While I agree that there has been some good marginal changes from the last illegal war, it is still clear who is the empire and who is the de-facto vassal. If the relationship is that of equal allies, where are all the European military bases on continental US soil?

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