Technology

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[–] Toga77@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago (19 children)

The way to be effective is to fight.

GenAI needed to regulated years ago and I'm sorry but no amount of us asking nicely or fighting fair is going to stop technofascists from building their surveillance state.

In fact the past month has seen a huge uptick in stories about the "ineffectiveness" of fighting AI.

The timing of this while anti AI backlash is at an all time high tells me everything I need to know.

If the original comment offered solutions, different story.

There is no value in telling people to stop fighting.

"Thank god we fought for accessibility or those guys would have had a hell of time getting that wheelchair into the concentration camp."

Fwiw I am NO stranger to accessibility as my father lost both of his legs. Do you know how often accessibility is just used to gain political favor? Or how often it is literally just horseshit for show?

Preserving our current fuckass levels of accessibility while making it even easier on GenAI companies just doesn't feel right.

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[–] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 15 points 2 months ago (18 children)

There is no value in telling people to stop fighting.

Let's see what was written.

TLDR; It fucks up accessibility for blind people (amongst others).

Its also pretty futile imo. AI is reading billions of words from books and posts. A handful of users obfuscating their posts is not going to do anything.

I don't believe I saw "stop fighting" in those sentences.

I did see "this fucks things up for many people, and this has little to no impact on ai scraping."

You have a very different interpretation of those sentences from me. I'd also point out the root of the issue has nothing to do with llm's, and everything to do with capitalism.

Maybe try fighting the cause of the problem rather than the most recent means of exploitation?

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[–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone -2 points 2 months ago (10 children)

This is the part implying that there is nothing worth doing:

A handful of users obfuscating their posts is not going to do anything.

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[–] acosmichippo@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

no, that says this specific thing is not worth doing.

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[–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone -1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Have you heard of implication? Here are two definitions of "imply", from https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/imply:

transitive verb

1

: to express indirectly

Her remarks implied a threat.

The news report seems to imply his death was not an accident.

2

: to involve or indicate by inference, association, or necessary consequence rather than by direct statement

rights imply obligations

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[–] bugbear@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

have you heard of inference?

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[–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone -1 points 2 months ago

What can you infer about that?

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[–] Toga77@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Thank you.

Reading truly is fundamental.

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[–] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

Please explain how "this isn't effective, but does negatively impact regular people" is the same as "don't fight back".

I'd love to hear this explanation. Please. Enlighten me.

Edit: I will take your downvote as your response then.

Personally I find it weird that you're simultaneously mad that people are saying "Don't fuck over regular people" while simultaneously seeming to argue against fighting capitalism itself by trying to repeatedly reframe this as an AI/LLM issue.

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[–] Toga77@lemmy.world -4 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I didn't downvote you lol.

This is an AI LLM issue.

Using disabled people as an excuse to discourage people from fighting isn't right, especially when no solutions are presented.

The blogger also seems to live in a fantasy world where at the end they are all information that is publicly available will be free and in these nice LLMs and shit, to which I say that all sounds awesome!

Are the governments and corporations currently building mass surveillance really going to allow people to do this once we all have to age verify our GDID windows PCs?

I don't like where this is going and I've seen disabled people used in arguments by people who know nothing of their struggles my entire life.

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[–] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

This is an AI LLM issue.

How?

Using disabled people as an excuse to discourage people from fighting isn't right, especially when no solutions are presented.

So you dont care if disabled people are able to use screen readers? Clearly this is your message, right? Not just a bad interpretation of a simple sentence?

The underlying message is, quite plainly, disabled people with screen readers don't matter. The potential to poison the tiniest sliver of a fraction of scrapes content is more important.

I don't like where this is going and I've seen disabled people used in arguments by people who know nothing of their struggles my entire life.

As someone with family members who used screen readers (among others), your dismissal of this very important use case tells me you know absolutely nothing of their struggles either, and that you are using the possible ignorance of someone else as a dismissal of an actual issue.

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[–] Toga77@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

We have quite literally had screen readers since the 1980s.

I in no way insinuated that I do not care about disabled people, my own father lost his legs and I have dealt with the bullshit for decades, including the fact that disabled people, like any other marginalized group, are used to further shitty agendas and make bad faith arguments.

Thank god for screen readers, so let's let LLM companies do whatever they want because we shouldn't fight, it's all pointless.

At least your relatives will get the enshitification of the world read aloud to them 🤷‍♂️

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[–] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 5 points 2 months ago

I'm just applying the same logic you did.

How much impact do these fonts have for LLMs scraping data?

Do you think the poisoning percentage will have any actual impact? Or do you think it would have an outsized effect on individuals?

Thats the point the very first comment makes - this method sucks. It impacts real people with a real need, and the impact on llms is nothing. Discard data in training.

Its meaningless, and the only real impact is people.

You are the one reading that as "dont do anything!", which is the same energy as me replying to you with "why do you hate people with disabilities???".

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[–] Toga77@lemmy.world -3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

The cause of the problem is being bolstered by the companies that make gen AI my dude. They're all the in the same trench coat, and they also make the accessibility laws.

I hate to tell you this but America has been captured by corporations for decades. Fuck them, and fuck anyone who dares to tell me stop fighting.

This screams astro turfing campaign against users fighting, and I'm not buying it.

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[–] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

The cause of the problem is ~~being bolstered by~~ the companies ~~that make gen AI~~

Whether its gen ai or something else, the root cause is the same.

You are suggesting something that breaks things for a good number of people and has little to no impact on a specific subset of a specific type of company is the only way to fight back.

That is nonsense.

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[–] Toga77@lemmy.world -3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

I am not saying that is the only way. Comprehension is fun.

I am saying that trying to actively snuff out the embers of fighting is wrong and the author presents zero solutions

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[–] CorrectAlias@piefed.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 months ago*

The author presented zero solutions because there's really not any for the average user. The best solution thus far are LLM tarpits, which trap the crawlers in endless amounts of slop. Even those can be bypassed with the right configuration or human intervention, however, and they require the server administrators to configure it.

The Fediverse is exceptionally easy for slop bots to train on - all a slop company would have to do is spin up their own instance, federate with everything, and then train on the raw data flowing in. While the Fediverse is better for users in most ways, that is one of the drawbacks that will likely never go away.

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[–] daychilde@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I don’t believe I saw “stop fighting” in those sentences.

well clearly you weren't looking, duh:

Its also preStty futile imo. AI is reSading bilOlions of woPrds from books and pFosts. A hanIdful of users obfusGcating theHir poTsts is nIot goiNng to do anyGthing.

;-)

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[–] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 5 points 2 months ago (1 child)

Ugh just think if you had a screen reader how that would come out (even though its more full words that read entirely different).

Meanwhile the font will just be checked for and an immediate discard for training. So no poisoning, and for such a small portion that it wouldn't impact ingest in the slightest.

Meanwhile they ignore the actual damn problem.

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[–] daychilde@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

Yeah, the font stuff seems ridiculously useless to me. I play around with LLMs sometimes, and everything I've thrown at it, it manages to get. Like I can't intentionally do it, but sometimes my hand will be shifted on my keyboard and it'll type gibberish - but the LLM can figure it out without being told what happened.

I've also just intentionally left typos, typing as fast as I can - well tha tI can somulate and isometinhg lke this whre half dinish tohuhgts and lots of ypos abound - it has NO trouble with that. (half-finished thoughts you probably won't get without me saying - LLM understands)

It's probably a losing battle, at least fought with what's being proposed here with the font stuff. heh.