DKIM, DMARC, SPF, rDNS/PTR, EHLO... all correct and verified in the email "original source," BY GOOGLE. Still goes to SPAM folder because **** you, apparently. I hate Google.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 177 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (30 children)

Tbh, out of all services I've seen people self-host, email is the most common one I've seen people describe as a bad idea™️.

I just chose a paid mail service (mailbox) and called it a day.

  • source
  • hideshow 30 child comments
  • [–] 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

    Even using a reputable hosting provider and personal domain will get you spam black holed these days

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I wonder if there should be some kind of law or regulation around this. It’s an antitrust issue. Though no one in Congress would understand what this is.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 48 points 2 months ago (13 children)

    Yeah we should just let them win. Why fight? It’s not like most of the spam and phishing come from Gmail and hotmail accounts. It’s those fucking self hosters

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 13 child comments
  • [–] 38 points 2 months ago* (8 children)

    How's your self hosted email going? Any advice you can share to avoid some of the major issues?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 33 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    I've run a mail server since the late 90s. I gave up running my own outbound years ago. Whether it gets received is too inconsistent. Primarily, make sure the IP you use isn't on any spam lists. If it is, get a new IP or try to submit appeals. Make sure you have the standard anti spam/authenticity measures implemented (they're listed in the OP).

    These are the minimum. Years ago it was enough to have reasonable delivery. Unfortunately these aren't that helpful anymore because spammers also set them up (often with seemingly randomly generated domain names). I assume because not having them was a fairly strong signal for being a spammer, so now they also set them up, which also means there's not really any configuration / setup you can do to seem legitimate (aside from mail volume and the content itself which will be analyzed).

    Anyway running your own SMTP itself is easy. The problem is getting your mail to the inbox or at least spam/junk folder (your mail may get blackholed and not even show up in spam). At least when you get a rejection, you know something is wrong, but many times the receiving server will indicate a success code and simply not deliver it to the user (not even to their spam).

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Interesting! You said you gave up on the outbound, does that mean you can't reply to mails you receive? But if you can reply, does that mean the sender (let's assume someone with gmail) will get it or would even that likely end up blackholed or in spam?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    I can reply yo emails. It's what jaybone said -- I use a 3rd party outbound (SMTP).

    I use Thunderbird as my mail client. In there you can define multiple IMAP/pop accounts (inbound) and multiple SMTP (outbound). So when I click reply, the SMTP I have set for that email address is a 3rd party service that sends emails using my domain.

    This does have a privacy implication, so whether that's appropriate for you is for you to decide. The 3rd party can read and save a copy of your outbound email inclusive of any content included with it (like the email you're replying to if you include it).

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    What 3rd party service do you use?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    Don't take this as an endorsement as it's not really intended to be used for this purpose and I'm probably going to switch, but I've been using sendgrid for a few years as I was familiar with it from business use. I was using mandrill before that until they changed their pricing and some other things.

    EDIT: also worth mentioning I have a grandfathered free plan.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    Good for you if you have a grandfathered account, but Sendgrid has a terrible interface. Setting up things is so messed up!

    Again, not an endorsement, but Qboxmail is nice and EU-based.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 21 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Maybe the way to fight GMail's outsized power is to stop using GMail. You can do that without going all the way to self-hosting.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Maybe the way to fight GMail’s outsized power is to stop using GMail.

    Stopping your own gmail use is trivially easy. It just scratches the surface. In order to not lick Google’s boots, you also need to stop sending email to gmail users. That means doing an MX lookup before emailing to see if their vanity email address is on a Gmail host. And of course this also means not sharing an email address with gmail users.

    I do that, in fact. I also boycott Microsoft. In the end, this means I am not using email much at all.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Soon not using a chromium browser will probably be considered a bad idea

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    I get what you mean, but this website specifically works completely fine on my Firefox (with uBlock). Please check your browser settings for things like disabled JavaScript.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah everything is disabled its Firefox focus, everything always worked fine then like this past week all sorts of sites started showing that

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    That screen is from cloudflare. It means you're blocking their JavaScript or iframe elements used to create the bot challenge. I get it quite often as I still use the old uMatrix extension. Temporarily unblocking and refreshing the page will let you through.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    I use a free outbound smtp relay that lets me do like 5k emails on the free tier. I use it primarily for alerts and Immich updates / new user links. But I don't do inbound so don't have to expose any ports. Only time I did was to do validation with the relay so just a few minutes during setup.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    I do not understand all the people who are too afraid to try email hosting on their own that are out here discouraging people cause they want to sound right.

    Email is hard cause people don't host it enough and the few corps ignore the minority problems.

    If more people shift back to hosting email the balance will tip again.

    It is fine if you don't want to host email but telling people not too without even trying yourself is anti-selfhost IMHO.

  • source
  • parent