Noit comments on Labour suspends Diane Abbott for second time over racism comments

[–] Noit@feddit.uk [S] -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

If you’re playing devil’s advocate then they’re not your words, you are advocating for the worst version of an argument. So why would it be a problem for be to mention satan? Unless those are actually your views, in which case you aren’t playing devil’s advocate.

You didn’t deny the holocaust, but your argument is flawed. The nazis thought of the Jewish people as a race. They attempted a genocide on that basis. They were being racist. Proudly so.

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[–] Diddlydee@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Whose words would they be if I'm saying them? Are there words you'd like me to say?

I was playing Devil's Advocate, but you acted like a twat, so I doubled down and gave you some actual examples, only some of which I agree with and all of which you glossed over. Devil's advocate is not the worst possible version of an argument - that presumes your argument is the best possible version. Quite a presumption on your part. Devil's Advocate is a counter point to explore other perspectives.

What I got from your comment is 'I agree with the Nazi definition of Jews'. The Nazis labelling the Jewish tribe / people / ethnoreligion as race still doesn't make them a race, despite the view and intention of the Nazis.

Much like Judas, how is satan the bad guy when god gave him no free will? His role was preordained. Maybe that's how you see the concept of satan. I see it as free will, individualism, and a counterpoint to traditional religious based morality, which is largely immoral.

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[–] Noit@feddit.uk [S] -3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

Maybe I’m argy because it’s a hot sweaty armpit of an evening. You can call me a twat but you are also now trying to paint me with “you agree with the Nazis” after I roiled against antisemitism so maybe introspect a little on that. To avoid shouting past each other, here are my beliefs on this matter and maybe you can tell me if there’s anything here you actually disagree with.

I believe constructing a hierarchy of discrimination is not just a waste of time but an entirely negative action. Discrimination takes many forms and arguing who has it worst doesn’t do anything to counter discrimination. Instead, it creates animosity between discriminated-against groups who could instead be comparing notes on better ways to counter discrimination in all forms.
I believe Dianne Abbott is more interested in playing with hierarchies of discrimination than she is in opposing discrimination in all forms. I believe this because she said that she thought black people had it worse than Jews, and when this upset Jewish people, she was not interested in understanding why (see: my point about animosity), she faked contrition, and she put out an apology that we can now all see as worthless because it was only there to allow her to stand again as a Labour politician. She has sown animosity between Jews and black people, and those of any other creed or culture who seek to oppose discrimination.

Your devil’s advocacy was for the question “is she wrong” and my answer is even if she’s right, she’s making things worse for everyone.

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[–] Diddlydee@feddit.uk 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Dude, your first recourse was to call me satan for offering a counterpoint, hence my ire. I rightly said you were 'acting like a twat'.

I'm sure you're not a twat and have good intentions. I'm Irish and many of my friends are travellers. We definitely do not experience the same irrational hatred and bigotry as people with more melanin. That hatred is something I see almost every day. I agree wholeheartedly with Diane on that, despite what I might think of her other views.

Re the Nazis, I'm simply saying your view of the Jews as a race is not so different to theirs. It doesn't make you a Nazi by any means, but it's a flawed view. They are not a race.

Very little of what you said in your last comment I actually disagree with. I concur that discrimination takes many forms, but racism, prejudice, and discrimination are different things in my eyes, and in the modern world, my experience is that people of colour have the short end of the straw with the rampant xenophobia and racism we see every day, mostly towards people who are not white rather than any religious or cultural group.

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