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Yeah (discuss.online)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/FuckTheUSA@lemmy.ca
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[–] 40 points 4 months ago (36 children)

And they'll guilt trip you if you don't tip because apparently it's YOUR fault that they don't eat tonight for not tipping (and not their employer's for not paying a living wage).

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  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Preface: I'm in favor of employers paying employees (and contractors) a living wage

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    One could argue that an owner, under capitalism, could choose to pay the employees a living wage instead of enrich themselves and expect the customer to cover for what they are not paying. You know, you live under capitalism but you are not forced to behave as a capitalist pig...

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago

    Capitalism relies on exploitation of workers regardless. Even if they’re getting paid a “living wage”, they’re still expected to cough up any extra money they got through their work to the higher-ups who didn’t even do anything laborious. That makes them “capitalist pigs” even if they’re not quite Jeff Bezos.

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  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago (32 children)

    You knew they were being exploited and ate there anyway.

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago (31 children)

    I don't live in the us nor I plan to visit them anytime soon.

    But even then, it's not my job to go figure if an employer pays their workers a living wage before going there. However, you don't have to worry about me not tipping because, as I said, it's not in my plans to visit that shithole. So I won't have to figure if people are getting paid where I go to eat.

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  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago* (30 children)

    If it's a restaurant with table service and they're not bragging about how much they're paying their employees, they're exploiting them.

    I mean, they're exploiting them either way, but they're not paying them 2.13 an hour and expecting tips to make up the rest.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    You know what happens if the tips don't make up the rest right? Your employer pays it, I'm not saying you're not going to get fired or that there has never been a situation where it's abused but if someone is actually making 2.13 an hour they're being human trafficked.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    You know what happens if the tips don't make up the rest right? Your employer pays it,

    Legally, they're supposed to, but that never actually happens. Even if the employee knows they should get it and is willing to push the issue, they just get immediately fired.

    They could then sue for backpay, but the most that will happen is the employer is forced to pay exactly the amount owed and the lawyer gets a big chunk of that for their fees. Nothing else happens to the employer. That's the best case scenario.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    So the solution is as simple as don't tip anymore. If everyone stops tipping, it won't be long before every tip-dependant service worker stops working. And without them, the whole restaurant industry collapses. You'll see a living wage being established in the sector in no time.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Good luck with that. Also, better not ever eat at the same place twice.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    Don't worry. I'd never go out to eat in the us. I'm not a fan of subsidizing a restaurant owner. But yeah, good luck with that. Doing so would mean doing an actual protest that would harm the capital, and we can't have that in the us. Best they can do is write a really nasty banner and go out on a non-working day (we wouldn't want to sligthly annoy the capital class) to protest. I see it's working wonders there...

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    that would harm the capital

    No, the wait staff making less than minimum wage are who would be harmed. Capital doesn't give a rats ass as long as they aren't paying.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Waiters not getting paid would mean waiters not going to work. If they don't work, the restaurant can't open and the capital behind it starts earning less (because it won't open to sell food). Sure, in the short term, it will harm the workers, but in the long term, no restaurant can stay open without workers.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (20 children)

    I still fail to see how is that my problem. I don't live in the US so I don't have to tip waiters for them to make a living when I go out to eat.

    And, again, it's not on me. If the owner is not paying them a living wage in the US, I don't see how is it the customer's fault and responsibility to cover for what the owner is not paying.

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  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago (19 children)

    And, again, it’s not on me. If the owner is not paying them a living wage in the US, I don’t see how is it the customer’s fault and responsibility to cover for what the owner is not paying.

    It's the customer's responsibility to avoid places that exploit their workers.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (18 children)

    I'm not paying what the employer should be paying. And, once again, it's not my problem. I don't live in that shithole and I won't be visiting it in the near future (honestly, I doubt I'd ever visit it).

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (17 children)

    I’m not paying what the employer should be paying.

    I know. But they're not.

    And, once again, it’s not my problem.

    It's a problem for the workers you don't care about, yes.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (16 children)

    Mate, are you trying to guilt trip me into solving a problem from a country that's a bloody ocean away from me just because its shitty system is greedy as fuck and the citizens are too complacent to do what they should be doing (aka a fucking revolution)?

    Solve your own problems instead of blaming others hoping for them to do it.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago* (15 children)

    Solve your own problems instead of blaming others hoping for them to do it.

    I try. Keep blaming capitalism's victims for its excesses. You're acting like all the fat entitled American tourists you whine about. Especially the ones with MAGA hats. Your attitude toward working people is 100% identical to the worst one of them.

    I'm not blaming you for American tipping culture. I'm saying you hate the working poor.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (14 children)

    Tell me again how should I solve an issue in the us while living in Europe. Your country is fucking over the whole world thanks to the pedohitler you chose as president, and I should give a fuck about it? LOL, LMAO even.

    Stop working in shitty restaurants and you'll see how fast they start paying a living wage. Instead, you perpetuate a system by shifting the blame towards the customer. You are part of the problem and, honestly? It's actually fine; the sooner the us fuck themselves into irrelevance, the sooner the rest of the world will start improving.

    The fucking audacity...

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (13 children)

    Your country is fucking over the whole world thanks to the pedohitler you chose as president, and I should give a fuck about it?

    I didn't choose him. I guess I deserve it for being outnumbered, though.

    Stop working in shitty restaurants and you’ll see how fast they start paying a living wage.

    I don't work in restaurants. Unlike you, I have sympathy for those who do.

    Instead, you perpetuate a system by shifting the blame towards the customer.

    People work where they can find work. You blame the workers but not the entitled people who whine about everything to people who are just trying to make a living in an exploitative system. Workers are trying to live. You hate them because they don't quit and go on the nonexistent dole.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (12 children)

    I didn't choose him. I guess I deserve it for being outnumbered, though.

    Now imagine the rest of the world that couldn't even vote and are suffering the consequences of something they didn't have even the chance to vote.

    I don't work in restaurants. Unlike you, I have sympathy for those who do.

    By tipping, you are screwing them furtherly by allowing the owners to enrich without paying wages. Tipping won't solve the issue, will perpetuate it.

    People work where they can find work. You blame the workers but not the entitled people who whine about everything to people who are just trying to make a living in an exploitative system. Workers are trying to live. You hate them because they don't quit and go on the nonexistent dole.

    The what? So I should move to the us from my country to tip some waiter and save lives? Are you mad at me because I don't live in your shithole of a country?

    I swear usians are expert in trying to guilt-trip others into solving their own problems. I couldn't care less about you all, because this and all of the issues you are having are your own doing and, the funniest part is that you not only grew complacent with your own situation, you are trying to make others solve your own problems.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (11 children)

    Now imagine the rest of the world that couldn’t even vote and are suffering the consequences of something they didn’t have even the chance to vote.

    Do you suppose things are great here?

    By tipping, you are screwing them furtherly by allowing the owners to enrich without paying wages. Tipping won’t solve the issue, will perpetuate it.

    Eating at restaurants that pay the tipped minimum wage of 2.13 an hour at all perpetuates the issue, regardless of whether you tip. Don't try to put an ethical face on being a cheapass.

    The what? So I should move to the us from my country to tip some waiter and save lives?

    Please stay right where you're at. Don't be a tourist, you'll give tourists a bad name.

    I swear usians are expert in trying to guilt-trip others into solving their own problems.

    I don't want you to solve my problems. I want you to stop blaming poor workers for the problems created by their oppressors.

    I couldn’t care less about you all

    You've made that evident by hating US workers. And only the workers.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (10 children)

    Do you suppose things are great here?

    Self inflicted pain. I would care, but my country and many others are getting screwed thanks to your pedopresident, so excuse me if prioritize.

    Eating at restaurants that pay the tipped minimum wage of 2.13 an hour at all perpetuates the issue, regardless of whether you tip. Don't try to put an ethical face on being a cheapass.

    I don't know how should I explain it so you understand that I live in a country where tipping is not needed because waiters don't need to depend on tips to eat every day. And, once again, it's not my fault that the owner is a piece of shit that doesn't pay their employees. I shouldn't be the one subsidizing that. Tipping lets the owner keep doing their thing. Stop tipping and after 3 days top you'll have a revolt among waiters that will solve the problem. But of course, that would mean inconveniencing them, and we can't have that. Better to keep doing the owner's job (paying the employees) and organize a "massive" protest on a holiday with angry texts in a board.

    Please stay right where you're at. Don't be a tourist, you'll give tourists a bad name.

    I've been in many places, but not as a tourist, I prefer going to other places and learn their ways so I can explore them as closest as possible as a local. However, there's one thing I'm not gonna ever do: selling my principles. And to visit the us, I should have to sell them really cheap so... yeah, there is an extremely low risk of me going there.

    I don't want you to solve my problems. I want you to stop blaming poor workers for the problems created by their oppressors.

    Yet, you side with the oppressor to keep alive the tipping culture.

    You've made that evident by hating US workers. And only the workers.

    I don't hate us workers, I just don't care about the us as a country because it's clear it's creating more problems than it's solving not only to themselves but to everyone. And that won't be solved after pedohitler croaks, because he made it clear that your democracy doesn't work at all and that there is a clear possibility of another trump happening again.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (9 children)

    If you eat at a restaurant that underpays its workers, you are perpetuating the problem.

    Eating there and not tipping is worse for the workers than eating there and tipping, which is worse than finding somewhere else to eat.

    The piece of shit owner gets your money if you tip or if you don't tip. They get none if you eat elsewhere.

    Show me how little you care by replying.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (8 children)

    Mate, I don't know how to make you understand that I don't live in the only "developed" country that makes their waiters and other service workers earn their wages from the tips. And that I don't have any intention to visit it.

    Also, keep tipping, the owner class must be really happy that you cover their labor expenses.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Mate, I don’t know how to make you understand that I don’t live in the only “developed” country that makes their waiters and other service workers earn their wages from the tips.

    I understand you're from another country. It's why you blame every worker (and only the workers) in the US for trump.

    I know there is absolutely nothing that will make you understand that being a cheap piece of shit who doesn't tip isn't the moral choice. It's just being a cheap piece of shit. If you want to make the moral choice (there's no chance of that, ever.) you stay away from the places that underpay their employers.

    And that I don’t have any intention to visit it.

    That makes me so happy.

    Also, keep tipping, the owner class must be really happy that you cover their labor expenses.

    They don't care if the expense of labor is covered. They're supposed to make up for any deficit caused by shitty people who don't tip, but wage theft is the most common crime in the US for a reason. I'm sure you believe that's the evil workers' fault too.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    I understand you're from another country. It's why you blame every worker (and only the workers) in the US for trump.

    What? No, I blame the usians. I mean, I can't blame French people for trump? Only the us voted in that election.

    I know there is absolutely nothing that will make you understand that being a cheap piece of shit who doesn't tip isn't the moral choice. It's just being a cheap piece of shit. If you want to make the moral choice (there's no chance of that, ever.) you stay away from the places that underpay their employers.

    Indeed, I'm making the moral choice by not going to the us, the place where workers have more in common with slaves than in any other developed country. On the other hand, you sound like a restaurant owner that's salty because there's someone not tipping.

    They don't care if the expense of labor is covered. They're supposed to make up for any deficit caused by shitty people who don't tip, but wage theft is the most common crime in the US for a reason. I'm sure you believe that's the evil workers' fault too.

    So by not tipping I'm making the owner actually pay their employees? And you say that it won't happen because the owner is a piece of shit? Wow that's... totally not a problem for me. Do you expect to conquer any rights just by writing angry words on a banner? Do you really think the poor capitalist class will just give you anything you ask if you do it politely? Stop tipping. It will be hard at fist, but if that's what get the people to actually do something, it will be worth it.

    But who am I fooling? You'll just keep whinning about how unfair is this to you doing absolutely nothing to change the system.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    Oh! I see! You're operating under the assumption that tips are paid to the owner! They're paid to the workers, often directly. It's usually advisable to tip in cash because tipping via card makes it easier for employers to steal from their employees.

    So by not tipping I’m making the owner actually pay their employees?

    Up to the non-tipped minimum wage. A good shift with tips brings in more than that.

    And you say that it won’t happen because the owner is a piece of shit? Wow that’s… totally not a problem for me.

    Of course it isn't. It's wage theft and you obviously celebrate it.

    Do you really think the poor capitalist class will just give you anything you ask if you do it politely? Stop tipping.

    The capitalist class won't care if you don't tip. They make the same either way. You're determined not to understand this. The way to hurt the owners is to boycott the restaurant entirely. It's a dick move to eat there, have a waiter serve you, and then not leave a tip. The only person you're harming in that case is the worker. Which seems to be a preferable situation for you.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    Oh! I see! You're operating under the assumption that tips are paid to the owner! They're paid to the workers, often directly. It's usually advisable to tip in cash because tipping via card makes it easier for employers to steal from their employees.

    You talk as if the waiters were not employed by the owner of the restaurant. All the money I tip to a waiter is money the owner doesn't have to pay to their employee so yeah, all that money I tip, is money the owner earns by not paying an employee. In the developed world, waiters have a salary and don't need tips to live. And, weirdly, the owners of the restaurants are doing just fine.

    Up to the non-tipped minimum wage. A good shift with tips brings in more than that.

    If you pay your employees a decent living wage, they'll be happy to work there and will offer a great service. It might be difficult to understand to you, but people tend to work better if they are paid properly without depending on customer's charity.

    The capitalist class won't care if you don't tip. They make the same either way. You're determined not to understand this. The way to hurt the owners is to boycott the restaurant entirely. It's a dick move to eat there, have a waiter serve you, and then not leave a tip. The only person you're harming in that case is the worker. Which seems to be a preferable situation for you.

    That's the part you fail to get: stop tipping and service workers won't get paid. That ends in two different ways: the restaurants close by lack of service personnel (who will naturally refuse to work for free). or the owners start paying a living wage to stay open. Do it nationally and you'll solve the tipping problem extremely fast. If there's something capitalists hate, that's losing money. And a restaurant closed means no money.

    But hey, keep tipping, owner class is really happy with you paying for what, in the developed world, has to be paid by the employer.

    Nothing says USA more than defending that the capital shouldn't pay the workers.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    That’s the part you fail to get: stop tipping and service workers won’t get paid.

    Sounds like what you want in all cases.

    We're done here. We're just talking in circles. You think not tipping is moral, and I think it isn't.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Seems you ran out of excuses. If the only way to "attack" me is to misquote a single sentence and pretend to think that's what I'm defending, you already lost. Looks like I was right, you're just a restaurant owner who's salty because if people don't tip, you'll lose money. Hope that happens soon!

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Jesus Christ dude. No, I don't own a restaurant. I just have smarter brick walls to interact with.

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