390
🎶36 degrees and it's getting hotter🎶 (discuss.tchncs.de)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/memes@lemmy.world
81 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[+] -8 points 4 months ago* (23 children)
[removed by mod]
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 23 child comments
    •
  • [–] 32 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (6 children)

    To me, your take is completely uninformed, so allow me to enlighten you. When Russia attacked Ukraine, oil prices spiked and conservative media were trying to cause a panic that Germany hadn't enough natural gas to get through the winter. Tangent: The natural gas levels are much lower today than they ever were 2022, but because we now have a conservative government, conservative media doesn't care. Anyway, because the start of the Ukraine war was such a volatile time and to assuage any fears, the last government decided to give the last 3 operational nuclear power plants a 6 month extension and to bring back coal power plants as backup. And that is what they ever where. A backup. And building nuclear power takes decades and costs billions. They help neither in the short-, nor long-term.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Afaik after Fukushima they abandoned nuclear no?

    After the March 2011 Fukushima nuclear disaster and subsequent anti-nuclear protests, the government announced that it would close all of its nuclear power plants by 2022.[7][8] Eight of the 17 operating reactors in Germany were permanently shut down following Fukushima.

    While nuclear power was gradually phased out of the German power mix, Germany increased its use of fossil fuel energy by 7% over the period 2002–2022, with a massive increase in usage of natural gas and only modest reductions of coal power and oil power.[9] By some estimates, Germany could have achieved a 73% reduction in its carbon emissions by retaining nuclear power during the period 2002–2022 and could have saved €696 billion on its energy transition.[9]

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah well, that's the conservative government for you. We could've just as easily transitioned from nuclear to renewables, which don't have the nuclear waste problem that is still unsolved. And Germany was for a brief time leading renewable energy innovation. But when the conservative government was faced with the cost of providing the infrastructure for this up-and-coming industry branch of the future, they instead cut all funding. This directly lead to the downfall of the German renewable sector ("Altmaier-Delle"). So while you are correct, when taking into account the entire time span from 2002, that Germany increased its reliance on coal and natural gas especially, it is incorrect to say that not sticking with nuclear was the sole reason for this. Betting on renewables was absolutely feasible even back then, as the current boom of renewables aptly demonstrates. But the conservatives do what conservatives do best: Stifle the future by fearing the up-front investment cost and sticking to the old and familiar instead of betting on the new and future-proof, even when the old way of doing this has already been shown to be unsustainable.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Regardless how you see it, keeping nuclear plants running would have considerably reduced the need for coal and gas, which should be the damn absolute priority.

    One actually infuriating thing is, the EU set targets and penalties over installed renewable capacity, not over emissions. So while Germany is generating considerably more emissions that most of western Europe, they were the "good citizen", but France had to pay penalties for not having installed enough renewables.

    You can see how much sense it makes at any time:

    https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/live/fifteen_minutes

    That's what I call a cynical policy written by people who want to score points but don't give a flying fuck about climate.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] [S] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    France has to shut down NPPs every summer because the rivers used for cooling overheat.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    1.No. Most of the time they just reduce their power level, without shutting down completely. This is not a technical limitation of the plant. It's to avoid heating too much the water locally, that would impact wildlife. But granted it will only get worse over time.

    2.All water boiling based PP will have issues under extreme heat. Their efficiency depends on a difference of temperature with the outside. That's valid for nuclear, gas and coal plants.

    3.I'm not saying nuclear is the best ever solution. What I'm saying is given the urgency of climate change, shutting down nuke while installing more coal was absolutely criminal. If you wanted to get rid of nuclear, you should still have started by replacing coal and gas with renewable sources before replacing nuclear with renewable.

    4.I'm pissed by that decision, but Germany is not even a bad actor compared to other countries.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    sry but german nuclear power plants were a mismanaged mess and their closure probably saved lives. all power plants along the rhine river leaked thousands of tobs of irradiated water into the environment, same goes for those at the neckar. those are the ones i know for a fact.

    they were outdated. mismanaged and ticking time bombs and it was time to put them to rest, maybe not that quick but better than never.

    building new power plants just doesn't make sense because renewables are just WAYYYY cheaper in the long run aswell as the fact nobody wants to build or run a power plant. that's just an afd and markus söder pipedream.

    solar/wind is about 7ct/kwh after investments while nuclear fuel is at about 35ct/kwh

    our renewable output is almost doubling every year despite the cdu government's best efforts to turn back to coal because reiche is a board member of E.On.

    Fuck germany but their nuclear exit was a net positive.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    all power plants along the rhine river leaked thousands of tobs of irradiated water into the environment, same goes for those at the neckar. those are the ones i know for a fact.

    Do you actually have proof/a source for that?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    That is a map of reactors in europe. What has that to do with your claim?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    You have to do a bit more than just open the website and immediately dismiss it. Granted, it's in German, but clicking on the individual reactors gives you a list of incidents there.

    If you want something more condensed, here is a list of incidents in

    Germany https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_meldepflichtiger_Ereignisse_in_deutschen_kerntechnischen_Anlagen

    or Europe https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_St%C3%B6rf%C3%A4llen_in_europ%C3%A4ischen_kerntechnischen_Anlagen

    though also only available in German. Just because an incident does not make it to the news, does not mean that no radiation was leaked.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    if you scroll through you'll see a map with all european npp's and their recorded incidents

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    Okay are the "power plants that leaked thousands of tons of irradiated water into the environment" on this map? Because I see none there.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    Bekannte Vorfälle von Kernkraftwerken am Rhein :

    Frankreich - Fessenheim

    2018: Block 1: Berufungsgericht in Colmar bestätigt Verurteilung des Betreibers nach Klage von Umweltorganisationen: Nach Eindringen von 100.000 Liter Wasser am 28.2.15 und Ausfall wichtiger Geräte wurde das Leck repariert, aber wenige Tage trat neues Leck auf, wieder strömte Wasser in den Maschinenraum. Der Betreiber habe nicht ausreichend die Gründe für Störfall ermittelt.

    Deutschland - Philippsburg [stillgelegt]

    2002: Block 1: bei Reinigungsarbeiten gelangen 7.000 Liter radioaktiv verseuchtes Wasser in die Regenwasserkanalisation. 2004: erneut gelangen ca. 30 m³ radioaktiv verseuchtes Wasser in den Rhein. 2010: Block 2: nach demLösen eines Abdichtstopfens aus einer Kühlleitung laufen 280.000Liter radioaktives Wasser aus dem Brennelementebecken

    Deutschland - Biblis [stillgelegt]

    1987: Block A: Kühlmittelverlust, ein Ventil schließt nicht. Die Mannschaft hält 16 Stunden lang die Anzeige für defekt und erkennt erst danach den Störfall.

    Deutschland - Jülich [stillgelegt]

    1978: 27.000 Liter Wasser treten durch ein Leck in den heliumgekühlten Primärkreislauf ein, erst 6 Tage nach Störfallbeginn fährt das Personal den Reaktor herunter. Der Reaktor muss über längere Zeit getrocknet werden, mit radioaktiven Spaltprodukten Strontium und Tritium belastetes Kühlwasser tritt aus und verseucht den Reaktorboden und das darunterliegende Erdreich und Grundwasser.

    .

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [+] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)
    [removed by mod]
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago*

    if you look into the other comment you'll see i posted a link with a map of all european npp's and if you click on them you'll see all recorded accidents at these power plants.

    i'm also not trying to argue that nuclear is worse than coal, far from it evn. but the power plants we had were old and dangerous and in the age of cheap renewables it doesn't make sense to build them anymore in europe

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
    • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Since everyone mostly responded to the nuclear stuff, I am not very aware of a reopening or even extention of german coal mining. As far as I know the predefined end of germanys coal mining (at the very least surface coal mining) is still 2030 (unless the CDU decided to fuck that over as well).

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] [S] 6 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    That was 2023 to prevent an energy crisis triggered by the russian invasion in Ukraine and these coal plants (not mines!) were already shut down again.

    And nuclear is not an alternative.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] -4 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    nuclear is not a. Alternative

    Only because your entire country was brainwashed by Russian propaganda in the '90s. Germany used to produce 25% of its power from nuclear. As far as I can tell, currently you produce none from nuclear and still 25% from coal and another 25% from natural gas.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] [S] 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Most of our fuel rods came from russia. Also, nuclear is prohibitively expensive, uninsureable, and has unanswered questions regarding permanent waste storage.

    Renewables are the answer, not nuclear.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    ALSO

    Most of our fuel rods came from russia.

    Not correct its Canada the USA France and the Swiss. https://wits.worldbank.org/trade/comtrade/en/country/DEU/year/2024/tradeflow/Imports/partner/ALL/product/284410

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    The answer is both. Germany really did fuck up closing those plants. Just like the US 🥲 and for more reasons than you know. Breeding plutonium wouldn't be the worst idea at this point in history.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent