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I could have told people "I know that I know nothing" too (lemmy.world)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/memes@lemmy.world
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[–] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (46 children)

Sorry, I don't think I understood your reply.
(What's is the difference between learning something on purpose or not?)

It's not about forgetting where you got the info from, it's forgetting that others (other brainholes besides your own) don't/might not know it.

It's just a characteristic of human(?) psychology, we all have it (it's not applicable/the bias doesn't kick in constantly, but it's there, you can't really function without it).
Information asymmetry isn't that intuitive to us, the languages/communication itself (memetics) heavily implies that - you just can't always explain everything from scratch, from inventing a form of communication to everything in the universe, etc just to tell someone to eg boil some water.

A basic example of this might be a child opening a tin box with cookies pictured on it only to find a sewing kit, then another child walking into the room, not seeing the opened box they don't know it doesn't contain cookies so they check. The first child usually thinks that the other one is stupid af bcs "it is known that there are no cookies in that box, duh, everyone knows that" (even forgetting that it's a reasonable assumption that there should be cookies in it). Children up to 4 (or 7?) can really struggle with that but can comprehend if explained to them (sooner or later we usually do learn it & try our best to compensate for it).

More nuanced cases are ofc when it gets tricky to correct the bias (you just don't have the data or the time to account for all of it, perhaps even a cultural hurdle as ppl might take offence to you over-explaining something they think they already know), eg at work giving tasks to someone less/differently experienced than you.

I think it's a subset of wiki/Curse_of_knowledge, but I'm no psychology expert so I'm not sure (might be classified differently, wiki/Cognitive_bias).

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (45 children)

    Yes, I understand the bias.

    You just worded it as if all the information in your head is in there by accident, and you can't actually influence the amount.

    You very much can, obviously.

    But that doesn't remove the bias... again, obviously.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago* (44 children)

    I'm still not sure I follow the reasoning, but maybe: I meant that bcs of the unimaginable randomness of cases and impossible vastness of data. You absolutely don't have free access to all the data (you don't know what I keep in my tin box at home). You can purposely (or not) only access the data that is by chance accessible to you.

    So within this context I find it weird differentiating between purposely vs accidentally (if that is the opposite?) acquiring knowledge bcs even if you pick up a book you chose it's still very much random & nothing in comparison to all the data in existence (and the comparison was between overlapping experiences of different people, so another dimension of random selection).
    That's why I was presenting it as random (but active or passive learning - it makes no difference to that point, so that's why I didn't initially get what you were saying).

    Ofc you have experts in their fields, they gathered knowledge "on purpose" to that end - and yet when I hire such an expert, first day on the job that idiot doesn't even know where their desk is.

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  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago (43 children)

    You can't follow the sentence "the way you worded that implied that all the information you have was 'gifted' by 'random chance'"?

    Lots of people enjoy general knowledge. There's even quite a few games and TV-shows based on it. You'd argue that everyone who did well in those, or say, Trivial Pursuit, are better by chance because they were "gifted" something instead of having had worked for it?

    There are people addicted to generalised trivia and facts and then there are people who don't understand the difference between amperes and volts, despite that being taught in pretty much all basic education in at least the developed world.

    But no, the kids getting A's didn't work for anything, they were just gifted?

    Just like

    This girl was also probably gifted her massive arms. I mean, there's so many other things she could possibly be doing with her arms, so it's just random that she'd get larger ones on purpose. It was a random "gift" from... God?

    And this isn't even about the context. Again, the way you worded it excluded experts as well. But you just have to move the goalposts instead of saying "yeah, you're right, it does imply that, I could've worded that better". No, instead you're like "I didn't mean experts, obviously!" Why not? (Do you notice btw how I'm asking you things instead of telling them? Wish there was like a name for this style of rhetoric. Can someone perhaps think of one?)

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (42 children)

    You misunderstood me.

    I wasn't talking about learning at all.
    I never said anything against the human activity of learning. I feel like I triggered you on something personal, for which I'm sorry.

    Being in the vicinity of information --> gifted the chance to absorb/learn/remember it.

    The girl was gifted (by which I mean randomised circumstances) the chance to put in the effort for those gains, yet she still can't lift a mountain, much less the galaxy. She wouldn't have the same gains if she was in a famine, or without arms, or a snail.
    Again, that is not diminishing her efforts, attitude, results in any way, bcs we understand the context of human lives individually (ie she's amazing).

    Trivia nerds won't know what random number I'm thinking of. Or what is dark matter. Or which human pooped the largest poop in 1000BC.

    Learning is fun, it has a lot of positive synergies with basically everything, and we tend to rightfully cherish knowledgeable ppl more. And we don't think knowledgeable ppl are dumb bcs they don't know things they were never privy to learn. I'm still not sure why would you assume my standing to the opposite, but I think we already cleared that isn't the case.
    I didn't move any goalposts (that's just you trying to win something I think - I did include experts) & I think most understood me correctly. But you just wanted to argue (my use of the word gift) like a master debater & extended my simple point into wannabe "this guy doesn't appreciate ppl's efforts & thinks learning is fake".
    That's just mean.

    Here, have some inspirational quotes (with maybe the general use of the word gift that is lacking in this convo):




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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Or which human pooped the largest poop in 1000BC.

    thank you for seeing me

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    Your great longevity wasn't just gifted to you - you earned it through sweat, hard push, and blood!
    Gg!

    Alas time is a cruel mistress, your once renowned, great name fell to obscurity, monuments erected in your honour faded, cults following your teachings disappointing, the poop buried deep beneath the sand dunes.

    May you find solace in that your deed was so great your renown passed on to myth & legends - and you lived to see it!

    O7

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  • [–] -4 points 4 months ago (38 children)

    I never said anything against the human activity of learning

    Honestly seeing this level of "rhetoric" is just... well I'm just bored arguing kids/idiots like you. You can't actually stand behind your words, so you try to make it personal.

    No, you haven't "triggered" anything by wording your comment poorly, but like I said, instead of just saying "oh right you are, that wording does indeed have that implication, I'll word it better" you're going all out on these pathetic ad hominems. Which is a term I'm 85% sure you're gonna misuse due to fundamentally misunderstanding it.

    Being in the vicinity of information --> gifted the chance to absorb/learn/remember it.

    Hahaha dude you do crack me up. You've never heard of willfull ignorance, or can't imagine it's opposite? I pity you.

    Trivia nerds won't know what random number I'm thinking of.

    Yeah uhm does that mean that they don't exist and/or have a much larger grasp of a million different little things than someone who's wasted their life thinking information just randomly spawns into you, so they didn't bother actively learning anything.

    But you just wanted to argue (my use of the word gift) like a master debater & extended my simple point into wannabe *"this guy doesn't appreciate ppl's efforts & thinks learning is fake

    That's known as a strawman my little silly-billy. And it's just like I said. You literally can not say "my mistake, I could've worded that better" you've made this be some sort of contest.

    It's really not. If it were, you wouldn't stand a chance with, again, that childish level of rhetoric.

    I think I've deeply triggered your traumas of getting beat hard in all the quizzes you've ever taken (I don't think you're really the type to play Trivial Pursuit, lolololol.) And that's okay. Learning is good. Like learning to handle your personal emotions and feelings of inferiority.

    Which is what you're having a complex about here, because I'm just pointing out your original wording did in fact imply that you think all information we have was "gifted by random chance".

    Being mean doesn't equate to an ad hominem, by the way. Neither do insults. They're not synonyms, which you'd know if you had ever spent any time actually learning about them. But you didn't. Perhaps you thought "random chance" would just plop it in your head one day? RUAHAHAHA :D

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (35 children)

    Come back to Earth, ppl might miss you.
    (Also, we have books!)

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  • [–] -4 points 4 months ago (34 children)

    This is exactly what I mean. I've seen this tantrum a million times. Your ego just can't handle admitting you have made a mistake. So you'll keep pretending you didn't, despite not having the balls to actually argue the point, because you know you did imply with your wording that all experience is "randomly gifted".

    And to do that, you start of with pathetic attempts at ad hominems. (Which again, isn't synonymous with "insult".)

    No matter how much I keep reiterating that my point is simply your poor wording, you can't accept it as such, and get so disturbed that you first try your shitty rhetoric and when it doesn't work, you change into silly oneliners like that, because you think replying even something completely irrelevant, will somehow make you "get the last word" and you think that's "winning".

    But it won't affect your wording and it's implications. It's really not a lot to say "lol I made a mistake, poor wording, yeah", unless you're completely convinced you never make mistakes. Which you'll ofc argue against, while constantly avoiding the actual subject of your poor wording.

    Then in like a few days you'll devolve to spamming "k" or something. Genuinely, seen this thousands of times.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (33 children)

    One million tantrums! :O

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  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago (32 children)

    See, defaulting to oneliners, because you literally can't address the subject of why you're in the thread, but your childish ego still forces you to reply something. Just like I said, and will continue saying. You're not gonna "win" this, I'll just keep reminding you of your publicly childish behaviour while you keep replying with a single line and smiley, because you're so ashamed.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (31 children)

    Omg, but I only came here to "win"! Noo!!

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  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago (30 children)

    Just like I said. You simply can't just say "maybe it wasn't the best wording, my mistake".

    Instead you publicly make yourself an idiot by dancing exactly to my tune. Just like I said, you're unable to address anything.

    The fact that you keep doing that sort of proves me right. ;>

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (29 children)

    Just like I said. You simply can’t just say “maybe it wasn’t the best wording, my mistake”.

    except evil_shrubbery did say that. several comments and something like ten hours ago. they just didn't say that in the exact words you are demanding. is there a reason you want to have an argument?

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  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago* (28 children)

    No they didn't. They pretend to have said that.

    It's like apologising to someone by saying "I'm sorry you think you deserve an apology" and then arguing "I already apologised actually" after implicitly stating that the other person didn't in fact even deserve an apology. Meaning that they're not actually sorry for anything, because "sorry you think you deserve an apology" isn't actually a real apology, is it?

    I can see how someone wouldn't see the difference. If you're having problems, please ask for help.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (27 children)

    is there a reason you want to have an argument?

    please answer the question

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (26 children)

    Is there a reason you're asking me things, on a forum?

    Wait what, is that what people on forums actually do? Oh no.

    I'm not having any argument. I'm pointing out someone was mistaken. Is there a problem with that? No, I don't think there is, but I'm sure one person has a problem with it. ;>

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (25 children)

    so if you're, let me quote you, "not having any argument", put on your big girl panties and stop demanding everyone and everything conform to your exact language because you misread a single word, let me count, almost an entire day ago. chill the fuck out. people use language differently than you do.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (24 children)

    No-one's forcing you to participate in this conversation.

    Why the three week leave from Lemmy btw? Luckily the "other guy" was active when you weren't. Weirdly, you never comment at the exact same time. Almost as if someone who got shamed went and hopped on their alt.

    "people use language differently from you"

    Yeah, but that doesn't change how grammar works, does it?

    This is about one person being incapable of saying "my mistake" and getting super annoyed. Like I've said, I've seen this tantrum a thousand times. :)

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (19 children)

    Wait, what on Earth happened to the other 999 thousand tantrums??

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (18 children)

    "what is emphasis"

    You're not a native speaker, are you?

    That would explain the poor wording.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (17 children)

    Why won't you just simply admit you misplaced 999 thousand tantrums?

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (16 children)

    Still here with sad oneliners.

    I can respond to you and point out that people sometimes use "millions" to emphasise that there's a lot of something. If I were to estimate it honestly, I'd say I've seen at least one or two of kids like you a week for the past 10 years so that's what, 520 to 1040 of these tantrums, on average.

    You're not ashamed to publicly make such a idiot out of yourself. All you need to prove me wrong is address the subject or leave. But you won't, because your infantile ego controls you. :D

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (15 children)

    Holy goalpost moving!
    1 million --> 1 thousand --> 520

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (14 children)

    How is it you're unable to do anything but sad oneliners, just like I've said?

    You're dancing exactly to my tune. Because I've been over this a million times. (Google "what is emphasis". Surely you're not dumb enough to that that "million" is literal? When people say "I could eat a horse", do you get upset when they don't understand why you bring them an entire grilled horse?)

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (13 children)

    When you were moving goalposts,
    I was dancing.

    When you were getting over that a million times,
    I was dancing.

    When you wasted your days googling the basic meaning of emphasis,
    I was dancing.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (12 children)

    So when people say, "I could eat a horse", you bring them an actual horse?

    Not understanding idioms further points to how bad your language skills are. Like when what you said literally meant "all information is gotten through random 'gifting'"

    It's genuinely fun to see how little control over your tiny childish ego you have. You can't stop it from forcing you back here like the hundreds and thousands of other kids who I see doing this. Youre doing literally exactly what they did.

    Ie trying pathetically to not dance to my tune while literally dancing to my tune. (Yes, I'm using "literally" as emphasis, not to mean literally, literally. Are you having a hard time understanding that? You might want to ask your doctor about autism tests. ;>)

    How you ask? By trying to avoid replying with one line, instead you just repeat it several times, as if that made some sort of difference.

    And then you bring up logical fallacies, which only show how much you're one of those kids who thinks about "winning" conversations like this one. That's been clear from the start.

    You just worded something so poorly that it implied a thing you didn't mean. It's okay, mistakes happen. But what isn't okay is this childish tantrum you're having. Publicly, might I remind you. Enjoy using this account (or should I say "alt") after this as everyone sees you squirming in this thread for days.

    (Just a casual reminder I've been in threads like this that go on for weeks. I've never "lost" a single one, because there's nothing for me to "lose" as I like conversations and talking. You're just here because you have a tantrum when someone tells you you're we wrong. :D)

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (11 children)

    Why are you watching "hundreds and thousands" kids?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (10 children)

    Oh, still the sad oneliners, because you're too childish to accept when you've made a mistake.

    Why do you think having this sort of tantrum will make it better? What's your plan? Keep up this childish avoidance? :D

    Good luck. For anyone not completely controlled by their childish ego, it would be easier to say "yeah, I worded it poorly, it did imply all learned things are 'randomly gifted' instead of earned.'

    But guess you're used to changing accounts. You probably change them more often than your irl underwear hahaha

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (9 children)

    Whoa, now we are talking about childish underwear ... sus.
    (Also what's non-irl underwear?)

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (8 children)

    I can talk about anything in the thread. Why are you avoiding the reason you are in this thread? What was my first reply to your, and why are you avoiding it?

    Is it because your controlled by your infantile ego, and can't help it? :(((

    You know, because you're still having the tantrum you starter days ago. The one I've seen a million times on various sites.

    Dancing exactly to my tune. I'm just waiting when you devolve to the "tldr" and "k" stage. Because you're proud of your ignorance. Thats why it's so hard for you to accept you made a mistake. :<<

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (7 children)

    I'm here bcs you're hella fun & worth the one-liners, lol my ego demands dancing to this banger tune, I'm living in a nonstop days-long dancing tantrum, can't think of nothing else, k, tl;dr.

    But the real question is why are you suddenly so silent about kids underwear?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (6 children)

    See the "now I'll try to turn the tables and accuse him of avoiding some nonsense I just made up"-phase is a pretty common one as well.

    This isn't a thread about children's underwear, is it? You must have your private tabs confused with this thread.

    You can continue this for weeks, but the only person you're lying to is yourself. Or do you think the average person can't see what you're doing?

    Am I being pedantic, and an asshole? Yeah. But I'm not wrong. Like you were. And when I am, I actually admit to it. I'm here to write because I enjoy writing on forums. You're here because you can't wrangle your infantile ego.

    If the girls from your school saw you acting like this, they'd laugh even harder than they previously did. (I assume you're in school, as I assume you're a child, as anyone adult having a tantrum like yours would be so much more shameful.)

    All trivia games are just testing the luck of the players, right? Which one was most lucky to gifted their knowledge? Unless you just phrased something poorly?

    This is a lesson for you. I gonna make you act so childishly that you're gonna remember it for the rest of your life and everytime you do, you'll cringe at how infantile you were. Can't wait to see what you'll devolve into by next week! If you're not a lost cause than that cringe you'll always carry with you might make you think twice about what you write and also make you more capable of accepting that you're fallible and mistakes happen.

    Which is more an adult response to someone pointing out you've made a mistake?

    This

    Or this

    Hmmmm? ;>

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    You are talking to a random child online for several days?? That is really inappropriate.

    And you brought up their underwear?
    Wtf?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    Correction, I'm teaching a kid a lesson. Mainly, don't be controlled by your infantile ego.

    Hopefully you're not actually an adult with an ego that infantile, right?

    It's not like you're deeeeeesperately trying to avoid admitting you made a mistake in your wording and then proceded days on end to have a tantrum you definitely did no such thing, pretty much proving to everyone that you very much did... riight...? ;>

    You know, like I've been saying, *over and over and over and over again...? Riiiiight? ;P

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    Dang, you really hoping to be talking to a kid about their underwear?
    This is getting sussier by the day.

    Then again, I wasn't gifted this tune of yours, I had to put effort in it, you should show some gratitude.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    Who do you think you're lying to?

    You know it isn't me.

    You know it's no-one reading that.

    So... it's you. Yourself. You're trying extremely hard to delude yourself that you're gonna "win" this and "get the last word". You won't. You "lost" ages ago and every single reply is reinforcing that. To everyone.

    Doesn't matter that you hop on your alts and then come on this account once a day to quickly make some comments on other threads so it wouldn't look like you're so childish. Again, youre trying to delude yourself. No-one else is even remotely thinking you're the "winner" here.

    Because you made a mistake and now you're not man enough to own up to it.

    Also the fact that you instantly think of children's underwear as a sexual thing is fucking gross man. I hope you never have kids, they wouldn't be safe with you.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    (Lol, who is this everyone you keep mentioning? We are alone here, and both for our own amusement, otherwise why invest time?)

    You keep projecting this '"winning" online & throwing tantrums is my whole personality' thing.

    And feel free to stop mentioning kids underwear :).

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    All the bots scraping this and all the people who will look at your profile and go "lol what an infantile moron". ;>

    So what's the reason you can't mention why you're in the thread, or what you wrote in your first comment? Is it because you're desperately avoiding admitting to a mistake, because your infantile ego is controlling you.

    So who are you talking to, because it's you who's spamming your fetishes, because you can't actually talk about why you're in the thread. Yet there's a reason you're compulsively replying. Can you explain why?

    Oh right, I already did, in the beginning. And then again, and again and again. And you've followed each and every step, like clockwork.

    You're just not man enough to admit when you make a mistake. Which shows just how infantile you are. To everyone ;>>>>

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    This is about one person being incapable of saying “my mistake” and getting super annoyed. Like I’ve said, I’ve seen this tantrum a thousand times. :)

    oh dude, you were so close.

    Why the three week leave from Lemmy btw? Luckily the “other guy” was active when you weren’t. Weirdly, you never comment at the exact same time. Almost as if someone who got shamed went and hopped on their alt.

    i was camping. some of us have lives. you should try it.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    i was camping. some of us have lives. you should try it.

    And most of the pathetic people who think forums are about "winning" things and who whine about people writing on forums (:D) also have alt-accounts, I've noted.

    And now that I pointed it out, you felt obliged to continue with the other. Or not. I really have no "proof", it's just pathetically common. To avoid getting called out for it, you might want to be active on both even when you're not having a tantrum.

    There's no place within my national boundaries that I wouldn't have the internet in. Maybe at most one national park about 1000km away. See, for me it really doesn't takes more than a couple of min every now and then to reply.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    And most of the pathetic people who think forums are about “winning” things and who whine about people writing on forums (:D) also have alt-accounts, I’ve noted.

    you're projecting again dude. i don't go camping to go on the internet.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Oh yes, that's why I can speak about anything previously mentioned in the thread, when you can't?

    I enjoy writing on forums. If you don't, perhaps you should stop?

    Like I said, I've seen this tantrum a thousand times and it always ends the same.

    All because you have some hangup about going "you're right, I was wrong, it was poor wording, which implied..."

    But you won't, just like I said like a dozen comments ago. I've sometimes gone a few weeks into these threads. It's genuinely hilarious how much people like you devolve, which just shows they were always just pretending. I don't need to. :)

    The proof is in the pudding. ;>

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    You argue like a chat bot designed to be obtuse and arrogant.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago*

    Woe what a great argument, sure showed me my place.

    LLM's are all sycophantic and if you're having a hard time telling a person from an LLM, you must be stupid af.

    And because you can't answer any of the rhetoric even at the level of a shitty slopbot you don't answer, just adhom. Lololol

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