Nearly 55% of voters in Switzerland on Sunday rejected an initiative championed by the top right-wing party to cap the rich Alpine country’s population at 10 million, early results showed.

The populist Swiss People’s Party, which has the most seats in parliament, has stirred up and fostered anti-migration sentiment over the years, notably about an influx of workers from the neighboring European Union.

Some have dubbed the proposal a “Swiss Brexit” because it could jeopardize Switzerland’s deep ties to the European Union anchored by deals that foster economic growth, cultural ties and cross-border travel, among other things. Switzerland is not one of the EU’s 27 member states, but it is all but surrounded by four of them

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[–] 54 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (31 children)

What is it with right wing populists and their obsession with immigration? All they ever do is state the immigration is bad, and that it's the root of all evil, provide no evidence for the claim, and then just keep parroting the claim ad infinitum until either elected or arrested/shot.

I get that they're racist but they're bordered by the likes of France, who exactly is it that's coming over that they have a problem with?

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  • [–] 33 points 4 months ago

    Basically it's a way to distract from actual political issues, and shift blame to people that have a hard time defending themselves.

    It's a very old technique but ususally works very well. The Romans used to execute Christians, and in mediaeval times European leaders would do pogroms (of Jews), burning of Catholics etc. Then 20th century examples like segregation, Nazism and fascists like Oswald Mosely.

    Nowadays we have the modern versions in MAGA and Reform and "stop the boats" and whatever this Swiss movement calls itself.

    Always condeming "the other" and making sure only to pick on those who can't stand up or really speak for themselves, because that persecution is cheaper and easier than acually solving problems.

    Especially if those problems could be solved by worker reforms and progressive tax systems.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (19 children)
  • [+] -7 points 4 months ago (18 children)
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    That's not how immigration works. That's how the right want you to think it works.

    I have literally never met anybody who has had their job taken by immigrants. Companies aren't allowed to pay immigrants less money than the current citizens so there's no reason to hire an immigrant over a citizen, in fact the opposite, a citizen is much more likely to understand the language and culture (although you do meet some people) and therefore much more able to integrate, and effectively operate in the business, whatever that business is.

    If you want to emigrate into a country you have to usually prove that you're not going to cost that country any money. You have to prove that either you have the means to support yourself, or that you already have an offer of employment. The only exceptions that are made are for people who are fleeing persecution or conflict. But the vast majority of potential immigrants do not meet that criteria.

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  • [+] -7 points 4 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)

    Since this thread is about Switzerland: We have the flankierende Massnahmen alongside Schengen exactly to prevent wage dumping. Companies get audited and we make sure foreign workers do not get paid less then local ones.

    Edit: Most people who immigrate to Switzerland for work end up in high-income jobs. The lower-income roles get filled too, but that's mainly down to labour shortages rather than wage dumping.

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  • [+] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    Where did you mention that. And don't tell me it is because our immigration system is somehow strict. I can move around Europe with a high likelyhood that nobody ever checks who I am.

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  • [+] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    You are deviating. How is that what I said? And how is Switzerland not being in the EU relevant when they are part of Schengen?

    And while your crime statistics are not in any way relevant to what I initially said, you do notice that the Initiative was mainly targeting the Billaterale contracts which are allowing immigration from Germany, France, Austria, you name it. These are immigrants they were trying to stop comming, not the ones from Nigeria which are a tiny fraction of who actually comes here. Their goal was to get rid of the wage protection system we have for EU workers and return to an older system where forein workers could be paid less and threatened with deportation if they didn't behave the way their employers want.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    "Illegal" immigrates pay in sales taxes and use less public resources. They're generally a net gain for tax revenue.

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  • [+] -3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)
  • [+] -1 points 4 months ago (3 children)
  • [+] -7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (7 children)
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Research suggests that policing strategy may have put immigrants at a disadvantage by targeting only the most public forms of crime, while locals were more likely able to engage in the types of crimes that could be conducted behind locked doors.

    The problem with "conducting your own research" is you also have to then read it.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I wonder if the output from the judicial system is the right tool to understand those issues.

    Those are known to discriminate.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    in germany the stats mentioned here look at suspects not at convictions.

    Also checked that wikipedia citation abt sweden. It is from one study that defines second generation immiration status as immigrant. secondly that same wikipedia entry mentions that roughly 80 percent of cases are not reported. there are some scenarios that i can think of that prove this study to be utterly useless uneless it is meant to sow xenophobia.

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