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There are two paths (lemmy.world)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works
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[–] 15 points 4 months ago (43 children)

This is not a very convincing argument anymore: with AI, there'll only one path left soon. And it's not the one where you sit on your ass in front of a computer all day.

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  • [–] 21 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (16 children)

    Llms can't even do math. And odds on them figuring that "highly complicated" technology out before the bubble bursts seems low.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    It's crazy that no one has integrated them with a graphing calculator, spreadsheets, symbolic logic software, etc., in order to increase their deterministic reasoning capacity.

    Like, human brains aren't just the language centers, so I don't know why the people trying to build an analogue haven't done more than merely trying to make the linguistic capacity more complex...

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    I mean the poster above you is wrong, they use math tools internally now when you ask math questions. Very obvious in Gemini. Yes the raw LLM trying to autocomplete the answer to a math problem is gonna be wrong but that’s not the way they are used to solve problems like that anymore.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    They have, you're not using the latest premium models.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    That would probably be because I don't use them? Why would I need that when I can use a calculator myself?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    That would probably be because I don’t use them?

    Good for you, but then that doesn't make you the most reliable source on their capabilities.

    Why would I need that when I can use a calculator myself?

    Because it doesn't just execute your calculations. It solves the whole math problem, then codes an app to handle future problems like this, automatically.

    Sure, you don't need to use it, if you're already comfortable with what you have. AI brings nothing new, but it does allow for speed and convenience (so long as accuracy isn't critical).

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    I never claimed to be the authoritative source on all AI knowledge, chill out. Also, it's entirely possible to keep up on developments in tech without using the technology.

    As for the rest, if you want to let an LLM do all that for you, go ahead. It's not gonna bother me when it gives you a bad output.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (4 children)

    It doesn't matter what LLMs can and can't do well: all they have to do is do stuff a person does well enough for the price of the tokens they consume to make that person's occupation vanish if it's cheaper - and it almost always is. The metric companies use is cost, not quality. Because that's how capitalism works.

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    The bills are coming in now and much like all other cloud computing, it suddenly becomes much more expensive to do anything useful once you are dependent on it

    It’s so easy to sucker capitalists with labor replacement schemes

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    I also like folks mentality that "once they see the real price of AI everything will be back to normal". As if the very same companies didn't get baited into becoming dependent on American cloud service providers like AWS to find themselves later paying out the fucking ass for them once they are dependent on them. Guess what ? THEY ARE STILL PAYING FOR IT, after more than a decade of being swindled. They will do the same with AI.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Llms can't even do math.

    Neither can a substantial amount of high school graduates in the US. Corporate is just hedging their bets that AI does slightly closer to accurate math and that meat machines are cheaper for physical labor than having to build robots. Besides, math is unimportant to capitalism. A company that loses billions a year is still worth investing trillions in.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (24 children)

    You can 3d print a whole house with one technician nowadays even. So that’s not even true anymore.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    It will be an extremely extremely long time before any industry domain will be able to remove humans from the loop for software development. The whole idea is idiotic.

    Sure, many places are trying, then failing spectacularly. It will never happen for anything even remotely important.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (22 children)

    Still need to have a foundation, plumbing, windows, doors, rebar, electric, drywall, roofing etc. At this point, I have to ask what makes it better/cheaper/faster than ICF construction? 3D printing for houses is just a weird way of using concrete.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago* (21 children)

    The technician does all that and it’s just windows plumbing and electrical. The foundation is printed, the roof is printed, the walls are printed.

    One cheap technician instead of a dozen high paid trades? It’s cheaper, faster and consistent quality. Do you even know what we are talking about?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (20 children)

    Well, I have done plenty of construction in my days but I admit I am not up to date on the latest. I have my doubts on the roof being 3D printed, you will have to show me that my friend. Also have reservations on the foundation being done by a single person running a 3D printer. Who is even feeding the machine during all this?? Also one technician is not doing the plumbing, windows, and electrical. And wow "just"? That is a lot of work.

    It is absolutely not cheaper currently. I will die on this hill. Also you are going to have to show me how it is faster than ICF. Consistent quality? I have no freaking clue what you are comparing it to.

    I don't know much maybe, but I certainly know more about home construction than you.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (10 children)

    lol this is nothing new the tech has been around for over a decade. It’s not like you’re going to be building large custom homes.

    What foundation? You can build houses on slab on grade in lots of places. You keep saying ICF, I don’t think you understand the usecase here if you’re thinking it’s replacing ICF type housing.

    The machine is fed automatically by hoppers, like any other automated machine. They get filled up probably every couple of days, leaving the tech to install the windows when it gets there.

    Just because you’re ignorant, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or do something cheaper.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    Slab on grade is a foundation. It's honestly what I assumed they were building these on as well. Alright if you don't want me to mention ICF what should I compare it to? Concrete block? Stick frame? I picked ICF because it was somewhat comparable.

    Listen, I think the technology is cool. Concrete shell on the outside would be naturally fire resistant and no need to paint it. Awesome! The dome houses that are sprayed on concrete are also interesting to me. Enough that I toured the facility in Texas long ago. Concrete is not a cheap building material though.

    That would be one insanely large hopper. Not saying it is not possible, I just don't see it being logical to have a hopper loaded with days of mixture. It's heavy!

    A 3D printed house sounds cool, but again I think it is just saying "concrete layer frame".

    You will not have one technician doing the windows, plumbing, heating/cooling, electrical, roofing. They are gonna do the frame printing, and peace out. Specialists do their job fast and well because that is all they do.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (8 children)

    You will not have one technician doing the windows, plumbing, heating/cooling, electrical, roofing. They are gonna do the frame printing, and peace out. Specialists do their job fast and well because that is all they do.

    It’s literally plug and play. If you can build IKEA furniture, you’re already overqualified for the job. You don’t need an electrician to plug in a fridge do you? That’s how these are designed, modular, and to be able to be built by ONE technician.

    I’m not even addressing the rest of your comment, if you can’t understand that the machine has a base and a long ass arm like anOverhead concrete pump, you clearly have no more experience than what Google is providing you. This isn’t new tech and you’re inventing problems that aren’t actually problems since they are already solved by other tech ages before.

    And this’ll shock you apparently, they have concrete trucks that carry the materials and mix it on site already…. Shocker eh?

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    So nothing to back up any of your claims. Cool, cool. Keep digging.

    Who is running all the wires through the conduit? The fridge outlet just magically appears in the wall all hooked up for your super tech to hook into it? Who do you think wires up lighting and electrical outlets?

    Show me one legit project with a house built and sold by one 3D printer technician. I've got plenty of time today.

    Imagine telling a bunch of construction workers that you can do their job because you can put together IKEA furniture. I'm dying here. Are you 3D printing the plumbing?

    Where is the roof? Who is putting the doors on? Do I get kitchen cabinets or what?

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (6 children)

    Who is running all the wires through the conduit? The fridge outlet just magically appears in the wall all hooked up for your super tech to hook into it? Who do you think wires up lighting and electrical outlets?

    ….. it’s essentially extension cords since everything is modular lol. Again, you’re inventing issues. Can someone install their own taps? Sure now the tap line is 50 feet long so a plumber doesn’t need to run lines. Now the fridge cord is 50 feet long, so guess what you don’t need an electrician.

    Do you need to be certified tradesman to install cabinets and doors where you are…? The fuck?

    I’m a redseal carpenter myself, there’s always new competition out there. Who the fuck shit in your cornflakes.

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  • [+] -2 points 4 months ago (6 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (4 children)

    Modular refers to something constructed from standardized, independent parts (modules) that can be easily joined, rearranged, or replaced.

    So…. almost like if they print around some modules that have standard hookups you wouldn’t need tradesman?

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    A 3D printed house is not something that fits this. At all. If you think it does, we will just have to agree to disagree.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    The interior parts all are. That’s why a technician can do it.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    We might be thinking of different things. The interior is somehow different? I know some might frame up drywall to cover the concrete, but what are you talking about the interior parts as?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago*

    No, can you not buy “kitchen units” where you are? Premade kitchen cabinets with installed appliances?

    All they need is water/gas/electrical hookup and you’re done after sliding them in. Lots of outdoor kitchens go this route.

    Hell they even make modules for high rises here that they just crane in that are complete bathrooms. Like the ones that are for a dozen people.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    It’s simply not possible never mind cheaper.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (7 children)

    Are you gonna be building mansions with them…? No. Can you build affordable housing, yes.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Are you personally invested in some 3D house printing start up or what? Affordable housing starting with an expensive construction material (concrete) for the walls is not happening. You have a concrete frame, wow. The housing market has been saved!

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    Concrete is a local building material, if you live someplace where it needs to hauled in, it’s pricey, so if you live near quarries, it’s dirt cheap. Location matters.

    And yeah, some places literally need just a shell for their exterior, this fits that usecase.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    That's a really good point. Location of the home.

    Concrete shell exterior I'm all about. I'm just at my limit with this other yahoo telling me one technician is building the entire house. Just at my limit with outlandish fairy tale claims.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (3 children)

    No, you’re totally wrong about that.

    A modular kitchen would have hookups anyone can install, even a homeowner, so why couldn’t a technician?

    Make custom ones for your printed home design, and install them, and hook them up to the mains that were installed by someone licensed. Just like a trailer or mobile home. This isn’t new stuff like the other user said mate.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    I could be, would not be the first time!

    I am asking, who is running the lines through the walls to the hookups? My understanding is that the conduit will be in between the two 3D printed walls, and you run the wiring through that. But your technician is the one running the wiring?? That is what I don't get. And besides that fact, I still have seen zero evidence of the 3D printed technician doing it.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (1 child)

    Like in offices when they run extension cords in cable channels? If it’s truely modular, have wiring harnesses and those get dropped in midprint like the windows, electricians are more for the hookups and wiring calculations, but if those are done in a factory and certified (like any other electronic) what’s the difference?

    How experienced in construction are you?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    I get that. I'm struggling to find a single example of this being done with a 3D printed house. Or one technician doing it all. Or actually anything that yahoo keeps claiming. I'm going to stand my ground on the electrical not being modular. I will be happy to change my mind if given examples of it in real construction of a 3D printed home that had the electrical done by the printer tech. Still, such a system would not be exclusive to 3D printed homes so we are back to square one.

    And again, my whole point was that one technician is not out there building an entire home currently. You and your buddy are welcome to provide examples. Still waiting for him to get back to my on the roof, which will apparently also be 3D printed.

    My construction experience is strongest in Timber Frame for residential. Otherwise I am on the steel side of things. Ships, power plants, etc.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    There's still plenty of jobs that straddle code and the physical real world that no spicy autocorrect will ever be able to do, let alone better than a human being. If you're feeling vulnerable now, spend some time identifying the niche jobs that are immune to the marketing hype and be one of the people who pops into anyone's head as knowing this stuff.

    Maybe I've been in a lil industry bubble for too long and I definitely don't have writing any production code beyond basic scripting daily on my resume, but a lot of this seems pretty overblown. I hope I'm right and the damage to the average dev role is minimal long term, but IT has always been an uphill battle to keep up with the latest toolset.

    I do wish all of you pros well, hopefully this doesn't come off as minimizing the issues you can clearly see better than I can say to day.

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