Vegan

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[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (8 children)

Everyone can learn to read.

See, this is exactly my point. No, they absolutely cannot. Over half of adults in America are functionally illiterate. I'm close to someone who teaches middle schoolers to read who struggle, usually with a combination of horrible educational background, low income situations, intellectual disability, or hardship caused by having to flee their country of origin, for their own safety.

Even if we had universally offered free classes to teach reading and cooking (we don't, not even close), there still would be many people who wouldn't even be able to take advantage of them, for various reasons.

What I'm really arguing here is against the absolutist attitude. It's just not helpful and it sets you up mentally to be even more disappointed in people than you'd be without the attitude...

Edit: the fact that this comment is getting downvotes tells you all you need to know about why people have to choose veganism in spite of your horrible messaging about it, and never because of it.

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[–] Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (7 children)

yes they can, with help.

with help

What the fuck is it, to each ones ability and each ones need or some shit.

Help. You, person here, should help.

I dislike absolutist attitudes too. Its just, just help.

edit, my neighbors mow thier grass to dirt. Shoulda seen this fuck yesterday across my street creating a dust storm just so he could sit on a tractor with a beer. This doesnt mean I do the same. Do you, in whatever ways you can, to be a helper. I literally sat 8 feet from a bunny hiding in the shaded tall clover while I swear this bun was watching this fool with me.

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[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world -1 points 5 months ago (6 children)

I mean even that's not true. Probably 98% could learn these things. 2% is not zero. In reality though even if a much greater number of volunteer teachers existed, we'd still end up with an even more non-zero number.

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[–] Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 5 months ago* (5 children)

this just seems like negative thinking, wrapped in realism, while I, an idealist, dream of hope.

Some folks cling to hope, some except reality as hopeless.

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[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world -1 points 5 months ago (4 children)

I lived in a world of realistic optimism where it was possible that maybe ya know, up to 10% might vote for Donald Trump. Like 35% of eligible voters chose him and most of them still would even after he's hurt them directly. And I started off "more negative" than you are now. There's being optimistic and then there's being mad at the world for not being perfect.

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[–] Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Im not mad the worlds not perfect. Acceptance of such is difficult, for me it was anyway, but that non perfection is why I make the actions I do.

Each action, if even small, makes an impact.

The bunnies wouldnt have breakfast If I just gave up and mowed my lawn to dirt like all my neighbors. Instead esch year, little by little, I watch my yard for native plants and encourage them to grow where they stand. I did plant a ton of non native clovers, but also leave the leaves and try and support life in my yard. My neighbor thought he was being nice when he mowed my yard with his, the first week of May, Ive asked him not to in years past, but he did it anyway assuming thinking it was nice. I cried. I fucking cried.

I cant fix the world. I can try and make the small differences where I can. Thats it. I forgot where this all started, being vegan when poor yes? Why does one need to be a perfectionist in this? I never was, still am not. I know there are many out there who are ..uh, severe in there opinions on veganism, Im not that. Do you remember when "Meatless Mondays" were a thing? I feel, even if you reduce your intake of animal products, it is a win. Who cares if some person online trys to call you some names cuz you got some chicken from the food pantry and decided to cook it. I dont.

last bit, and caffine ramble over, I have never been religious in any context, but for a couple years I rented a room from a Jewish family in my youth. They kept kosher, and invited me to many of thier meals. I became good friends with the son, and he answered all of my questions. I learned in that time, that according to their religious law, if a person is in dire need, starving, has no other choice, its okay to break thier kosher custom by the relgious law and it doesnt give shame for doing as such.

I liked this a lot. Its reasonable, understanable, and forgiving. I apply this thinking to veganism too. or more simply, being plant based, or reducing one meal of meat a week with a veg dish, is all great and good.

Every little bit counts, to me. What can I do about billionares? not give money to their companies, but not much else I fear. So we do what we can to help the world be a better place, in whstever small ways we can.

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[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I appreciate the story and that you're not like two of the other commenters who couldn't wait to fight me.

Who cares if some person online trys to call you some names

The truth about that is "most people". The same way if someone flips you off while driving when you didn't even do anything wrong, that is offensive. The same as the other day when some asshat made a bad driving decision and took it out on me yelling "hurry it up" while I was (already quickly) crossing the street. It matters how people treat others when they're trying to take a moral stand.

As it happens, I know a lot about veganism and I've thought a lot about it. For about 12 years now I've reduced my meat intake. I've backslid slightly but for probably 5 years I probably was 90% vegetarian. Now I'm probably at about 60-70%.

If I truly was just now thinking about it for the first time, the original commenter I responded to would've driven me far from having a desire to become vegan. They were insanely rude and self righteous and distorted facts to the point where it's accurate to call some of their statements lies.

The only reason I even commented to begin with is they said anyone can "easily" reduce animal suffering in their lives to "zero". Which is just flatly false. So I challenged it and I wasn't rude about it. Which was...not rewarded.

There absolutely is in western culture at least, a correlation between affluence and avoidance of animal products. It's the reason you're gonna find like 2% of the population as vegetarians in the tiny town I'm from, while in NYC it's probably like 25%. Screaming at people condescendingly, using phrases like "you have the flesh of innocent suffering in your teeth" is not helping anyone. Telling people they can easily change their entire lives, implying it's only their moral failing that they haven't yet, is not helping anyone.

I'm sure you get a lot of this, I'm just explaining why this thread had me in the mood that it did. The other commenters were shitty and dismissive and honestly, lying. Partly an "Internet person thing" and partly a unique "self righteous vegan thing". I've tried to live in a way that minimizes negative effects on others as well. We need more people doing these kinds of things, not people getting screamed into a guiltfest (doesn't work at all anyhow) if they haven't started yet.

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[–] Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 5 months ago* (1 child)

no I completely agree with you, and I thank you for writting this out. I agree some of the rhetoric isnt helpful, why I try to combat that. Guilt tripping does not work, for nearly anything, its not gonna work to force folks to be vegan. Education, being informative, and peaking folks curiosity, will help them form thier own opinions on how to move through life. You cant force choice. If I could force choice Id never see an amazon truck on my street again, but I cant, so I just sigh and move on. Acceptance of how things are.

Thanks for being reasonable. I actually was on bluesky for half a minute when it first came out, and fed a troll talking about veganism acidentially. They poised their question from seemingly a place of honest curiosity, and then got vicious in the comments with me. I got off that site just because of that final straw interation. I dont mess with people who hold this, as you said, self righteous "Im better than others" opinions. Its harmful to movements and puts more people off, than on.

Again, thanks for being cool, I hope you have a lovely day today!

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[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

Thanks for the nice response. Have a great day also!