HumanOnEarth comments on What is your opinion on the morality of bringing a child into this world?

[–] HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca -1 points 5 months ago (7 children)

Well I'm not really talking about despair am I? You said you choose to concentrate on the good. I'm saying that if everyone in society just concentrated on the good the bad would never be solved.

You say you can "act to lessen the suffering around you". Doesn't that imply that you're actually concentrating on the bad, at least a bit? How do you disregard the bad and act against it at the same time? You obviously, self-admittedly care about the bad at least enough to do something about it.

You kind of changed your story and then held it against my argument.... and ended it with an argument that the people who despair are to blame for the world's problems, which is a bold and egregiously wrong thing to say.

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[–] zloubida@sh.itjust.works 7 points 5 months ago (6 children)

Concentrating on the good doesn't mean denying the existence of the bad. It means to put the good at the center, in this case of my life, finding in my family, my faith and my hobbies the strength to look calmly at the bad, which are at the periphery of my life but still exist and are always present in my consciousness.

an argument that the people who despair are to blame for the world's problems

That's not what I said. But the people in power want us despaired, because they want us docile.

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[–] HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca 0 points 5 months ago (5 children)

(Doomerism and concentrating on the negative) is the very reason why so many people are suffering.

If you're not referring to people in despair, what are you referring to?

I think we're both not trying to talk about the fringes of this issue. But I take personal offense when "doomerism" is attacked like it's some kind of illness. I spent almost two decades not being a doomer. And watched as complacency due to ignorance got replaced by complacency due to political indoctrination which is being replaced by complacency due to overwhelm.

You can't fault a guy for arguing that maybe we should start acting like doom is impending. Or do you not think that it is? Cause if you understand the scientific method, have at least an average IQ and don't have any significant mental disabilities, it's pretty clear that we are, objectively, doomed on our current trajectory.

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[–] zloubida@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 months ago (4 children)

The keyword here is: “on our current trajectory”. Doomerism is not the idea that our current trajectory is catastrophic; it's the idea that's our trajectory is already decided. It's not.

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[–] Katrisia@lemmy.today 1 point 5 months ago

I am sorry if at this point is kind of an interruption of your conversation, but I believe I disagree only with a little detail my fellow human said, and I think it is important. There is a way to be a "doomer" or whatever name we get nowadays without believing in a trajectory. I do not believe we have a fixed path. I believe there are a lot of options, but all within a range of possibilities (we won't develop wings tomorrow and sparkle and be angels all of a sudden). And the thing is I believe that realm of possibilities is mostly negative from our point of view. That many possible paths are okay, even some kind of good, but many many others are bad or frankly terrible. So, in that way, I believe I am a "doomer" without thinking that it will all go downhill. No, sometimes history gets a good chapter, a good period of time, here and there; still, overall, I'd argue existence is mostly or predominantly negative/ugly/sad/not-likable.

And I agree with my fellow lemming that the only thing left when you view things like this is to try to make things better, thus, "doomerism" shouldn't be apathy or defeat or whatever, it is a very urgent call to reduce the suffering we 'diagnose' and to make the world a better place.

I wouldn't call it "doomerism", I'd call it philosophical pessimism (because it's more technical and Wikipediable, lol).

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[–] HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca -1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Yes, our trajectory is already decided in the sense that we're locked into catastrophe. It's about degrees of catastrophe now. "But if we work hard" you say?

Here's an imperfect but approachable analogy: If you're trapped in a bathtub and it's pleasantly warm, and you pour boiling water in until it's concerningly hot, you can't just stop pouring the water to resolve your problem. You're now in mortal danger since you can't get out, even though no more hot water is being added to the system. It'll take too long for the water to naturally cool to save you. The water is the climate system. The boiling water is the extra energy trapped by greenhouse gases. You are human civilization as we know it.

It's concerningly hot now. You don't currently have any access to cold water (carbon sequestration and/or mitigation). Nothing more than a few drops a minute anyway. That's not going to help. Even the very most optimistic of scenarios says that we might be able to bring that up to a very slow stream of cold water. Certainly won't work fast enough.

Now here's reality: the hot water is not stopping, it's speeding up. Your body might be able to manage the hot water for a little bit, but pretty soon things are going to stop working properly as you overheat. You might get lucky if the hot water stops RIGHT NOW, but that's if you're lucky. Even if you somehow make it, you're going to be severely fucked.

But. The. Water. Is. Still. Speeding. Up.

Edit: Ah yes, the downvote. Hero, would you care to critique anything? I really could use some hope, I'm serious. I would love reason for optimism, and I'm totally open minded to it. All you need to do is speak up?

I hope the silent downvotes make y'all feel better.... anything except confront the issue I guess.

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[–] zloubida@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 child)

If your fear for the future prevents you to live your present life, you don't need more arguments with strangers on the net. You need professional help and I hope you have it. Doomerism may not be an illness, but depression is, and like all illnesses it's better to fight it with a doctor. Believe someone who suffered it, and married to someone for whom it's chronic. There is a way out of depression too, or at least a way to mitigate its effects. Just like climate change.

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[–] HumanOnEarth@lemmy.ca 1 point 5 months ago

It's a sad state of affairs when a statement of fact is disregarded as depression lol.

Don't you worry, I live my life just fine. Believe it or not it's possible to be clear eyed about the world's problems while also living your life.....

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