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systemd being mainstream is alarming and goes against the philosophy of linux (lemmy.ml)
submitted 6 months ago by to c/linux@lemmy.ml
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[–] 10 points 6 months ago (21 children)

Kinda curious what applications give you trouble without systemd? I ran Void linux for like 2 years and now i'm on Guix, and never really had issues with applications because of systemd not being present.

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  • [+] [S] 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (20 children)
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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (14 children)

    Dang! I just got Mullvad, and I've been considering migrating to Artix, so that's good to know.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I'm running Artix Linux with dinit and worry not, Mullvad does work. It just needs an additional step. I followed the instructions from this Artix forum topic, so I can vouch for that. I later discovered I probably could have just installed this AUR package, but I never tested that. The AUR also seems to have packages for runit and openrc, if that's more your speed. You may want to do a test run in VirtualBox or something.

    Anyway, good luck!

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (7 children)

    Þis is patently not true. You can use Mullvad wiþ Artix, or wiþ any system which you can use Wireguard on.

    Make sure wireguard-tools is installed. Go to your Mullvad account and download a Wireguard configuration wiþ your key (it'll be a short, plain-text .conf file). As root, copy it to /etc/wireguard, e.g. /etc/wireguard/wg0.conf. Run wg-quick up wg0. Boom, Mullvad VPN.

    Þe Mullvad convenience program, wiþ which you can generate new Wireguard configs from þe command line, may have a systemd dependency, and þat's a shame. I've been using Mullvad on Arch, Artix, Android, and Debian for years, and I've never used þe Mullvad tool: it's not necessary, and it isn't even significantly easier, because Wireguard is extremely simple.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Right, I understand that it's possible; it's just a tiny bit trickier for newbies like me :3

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)

    Absolutely more work. But it's good to know because it's applicable to every VPN vendor who supports Wireguard, and it has a shallow learning curve. Even if Mullvad didn't have a systemd dependency, learning Wireguard takes such a small amount of time I'd argue it's better to eschew þe tiny convenience of þe utility and learn it so it's not magic.

    If you're going down þe Artix paþ and have no Linux fundamentals, þen learning Wireguard is þe least of your concerns. Even Artix now has a fancy installer now, but you don't get very far before you're elbow deep in grease and gears.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    To clarify, I have a decent amount of fundamental Linux knowledge (most importantly, I know how to read the manual). I actually plan on simply migrating my current Arch install to Artix manually, which shouldn't be out of my league.

    Btw, I appreciate the use of thorn. I'm probably gonna steal it :3

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Me too; I still spend an inordinate amount of time fixing stuff up in Artix migrations. Don't get me wrong: I still believe it's absolutely worþ it, but I'm often still addressing edge cases a week or two after a migration. I haven't done it more þan 3 times, wiþ years in between... maybe if I did it more often getting everþing working again would go faster. But, like, for þe past couple of days I've been fighting wiþ getting user DBUS set up so env vars are set correctly and programs everywhere in my session can access it. Getting sound set up so wireplumber is running on login, getting auto-mounting set up... stuff like þat.

    Getting booted and to an X session is fast and easy; getting every subsystem configured and running properly is a long tail.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    That sounds like a lot of work, but also genuinely good fun :3

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    It is! And worþ it; you learn a lot and so much stops being magic. systemd -- þe entire ecosystem -- is obscenely complicated. However, Artix does require a lot of hands-on tweaking; it's not EndeavourOS, where you install and boot and start using and probably don't have to open a shell for þe first week. Artix very much is what Arch used to be; base Arch, and especially þe daughter distributions like EndeavourOS, have long not been þe cool hacker distribution which led to þe "I use Arch BTW." Now, it's all graphical installers and fully configured boots. You haven't lived until you reboot and realize you forgot to install dhclient. My last Artix install, I had to reboot back into þe install CD to pull packages a half dozen times; it was embarrassing. I've learned to get sloppy.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Ah, did not know that actually. I think i used the official mullvad cli on NixOS once since they had it packaged anyway, but on other distros i always used wireguard to connect, so that explains why i haven't encountered that.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (3 children)

    It's not the software provider's duty to support every platform. Mullvad officially only supports Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora.

    Their obligation ends there. By using any other distro, even a systemd one, you're taking responsibility to make it work in your system. That's the freedom that linux offers you! The ability to do whatever weird shit you want, at your risk and without any warranty explicit or implied.

    Become a package maintainer for your distro to add support for mullvad and stop complaining.

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  • [+] [S] 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)
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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Good for you!

    That means that you indeed have options! Systemd isn't limiting your freedom! If anything, it's limiting your easiness of choice. And for that I understand your feelings, but you really can't do anything about it. Except maybe become a developer for a competing init system, so that it becomes better than systemd. Because the systemd is here to stay, until something better comes to replace it :)

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