▲ 11 ▼ How some of you sound (lemmy.ml) submitted 6 months ago by Dragon@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml 14 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 months ago (8 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] -5 points 6 months ago* (7 children) The only real resource on democracy you provided is the Roland Boer book, which looks interesting, and which I got a copy of and intend to read. However, a committee-based democracy with a ban on antagonistic propaganda does not sound promising. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 months ago However, a committee-based democracy with a ban on antagonistic propaganda does not sound promising. Comrade Bordiga limits himself to upholding a cautious position on all the questions raised by the Left. He doesn’t say: the International poses and resolves such and such a question in this way, but the Left will instead pose and resolve it this other way. He instead says: the way the International poses and resolves problems doesn’t convince me; I fear they might slip into opportunism; there are insufficient guarantees against this; etc. His position, then, is one of permanent suspicion and doubt. In this way the position of the “Left” is purely negative: they express reservations without specifying them in a concrete form, and above all without indicating in concrete form their own point of view and their solutions. They end up spreading doubt and distrust without offering anything constructive. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 months ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] -2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children) The problem rests on your belief that you know better than the millions of people in the DPRK That's only true if you assume the government is actually a representation of the will of the people of the DPRK. How am I supposed to know whether that's true other than by evaluating the quality of their democratic system? Though you maintain a polite tone, your actual actions speak against that What actions have I taken that are upsetting? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago* (1 child) That’s only true if you assume the government is actually a representation of the will of the people of the DPRK Everything you're baselessly insinuating only makes sense if you assume a priori that it isn't. This is just you inverting your uninformed position and assuming it must be ours too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 1 point 6 months ago you assume a priori that it isn't I'm open to the idea that is is, but all the evidence I've seen this far indicates that it isn't, and no one has given evidence that it is permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] -1 points 6 months ago (2 children) The classes in power in the DPRK are the working classes Whether this is true is really what I'm trying to determine, and currently skeptical of. I guess it may be difficult to prove or disprove. It sounds like you think the class identity of the administration is enough to say so, but I could be wrong. I don't see that as sufficient. regular strawmanning and misframing I may have misrepresented your or others' perspectives, but if so it was not intentional. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 6 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child) The working classes control the state Do you mean (1) that the collective will of the working class directs the behavior of the state, or (2) that managers of the state are members of the working class? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 2 points 6 months ago I will postpone further judgement until having read it permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] -5 points 6 months ago* (7 children) The only real resource on democracy you provided is the Roland Boer book, which looks interesting, and which I got a copy of and intend to read. However, a committee-based democracy with a ban on antagonistic propaganda does not sound promising. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 months ago However, a committee-based democracy with a ban on antagonistic propaganda does not sound promising. Comrade Bordiga limits himself to upholding a cautious position on all the questions raised by the Left. He doesn’t say: the International poses and resolves such and such a question in this way, but the Left will instead pose and resolve it this other way. He instead says: the way the International poses and resolves problems doesn’t convince me; I fear they might slip into opportunism; there are insufficient guarantees against this; etc. His position, then, is one of permanent suspicion and doubt. In this way the position of the “Left” is purely negative: they express reservations without specifying them in a concrete form, and above all without indicating in concrete form their own point of view and their solutions. They end up spreading doubt and distrust without offering anything constructive. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 months ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] -2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children) The problem rests on your belief that you know better than the millions of people in the DPRK That's only true if you assume the government is actually a representation of the will of the people of the DPRK. How am I supposed to know whether that's true other than by evaluating the quality of their democratic system? Though you maintain a polite tone, your actual actions speak against that What actions have I taken that are upsetting? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago* (1 child) That’s only true if you assume the government is actually a representation of the will of the people of the DPRK Everything you're baselessly insinuating only makes sense if you assume a priori that it isn't. This is just you inverting your uninformed position and assuming it must be ours too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 1 point 6 months ago you assume a priori that it isn't I'm open to the idea that is is, but all the evidence I've seen this far indicates that it isn't, and no one has given evidence that it is permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] -1 points 6 months ago (2 children) The classes in power in the DPRK are the working classes Whether this is true is really what I'm trying to determine, and currently skeptical of. I guess it may be difficult to prove or disprove. It sounds like you think the class identity of the administration is enough to say so, but I could be wrong. I don't see that as sufficient. regular strawmanning and misframing I may have misrepresented your or others' perspectives, but if so it was not intentional. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 6 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child) The working classes control the state Do you mean (1) that the collective will of the working class directs the behavior of the state, or (2) that managers of the state are members of the working class? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 2 points 6 months ago I will postpone further judgement until having read it permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 months ago However, a committee-based democracy with a ban on antagonistic propaganda does not sound promising. Comrade Bordiga limits himself to upholding a cautious position on all the questions raised by the Left. He doesn’t say: the International poses and resolves such and such a question in this way, but the Left will instead pose and resolve it this other way. He instead says: the way the International poses and resolves problems doesn’t convince me; I fear they might slip into opportunism; there are insufficient guarantees against this; etc. His position, then, is one of permanent suspicion and doubt. In this way the position of the “Left” is purely negative: they express reservations without specifying them in a concrete form, and above all without indicating in concrete form their own point of view and their solutions. They end up spreading doubt and distrust without offering anything constructive. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 months ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] -2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children) The problem rests on your belief that you know better than the millions of people in the DPRK That's only true if you assume the government is actually a representation of the will of the people of the DPRK. How am I supposed to know whether that's true other than by evaluating the quality of their democratic system? Though you maintain a polite tone, your actual actions speak against that What actions have I taken that are upsetting? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago* (1 child) That’s only true if you assume the government is actually a representation of the will of the people of the DPRK Everything you're baselessly insinuating only makes sense if you assume a priori that it isn't. This is just you inverting your uninformed position and assuming it must be ours too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 1 point 6 months ago you assume a priori that it isn't I'm open to the idea that is is, but all the evidence I've seen this far indicates that it isn't, and no one has given evidence that it is permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] -1 points 6 months ago (2 children) The classes in power in the DPRK are the working classes Whether this is true is really what I'm trying to determine, and currently skeptical of. I guess it may be difficult to prove or disprove. It sounds like you think the class identity of the administration is enough to say so, but I could be wrong. I don't see that as sufficient. regular strawmanning and misframing I may have misrepresented your or others' perspectives, but if so it was not intentional. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 6 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child) The working classes control the state Do you mean (1) that the collective will of the working class directs the behavior of the state, or (2) that managers of the state are members of the working class? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 2 points 6 months ago I will postpone further judgement until having read it permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] -2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children) The problem rests on your belief that you know better than the millions of people in the DPRK That's only true if you assume the government is actually a representation of the will of the people of the DPRK. How am I supposed to know whether that's true other than by evaluating the quality of their democratic system? Though you maintain a polite tone, your actual actions speak against that What actions have I taken that are upsetting? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago* (1 child) That’s only true if you assume the government is actually a representation of the will of the people of the DPRK Everything you're baselessly insinuating only makes sense if you assume a priori that it isn't. This is just you inverting your uninformed position and assuming it must be ours too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 1 point 6 months ago you assume a priori that it isn't I'm open to the idea that is is, but all the evidence I've seen this far indicates that it isn't, and no one has given evidence that it is permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] -1 points 6 months ago (2 children) The classes in power in the DPRK are the working classes Whether this is true is really what I'm trying to determine, and currently skeptical of. I guess it may be difficult to prove or disprove. It sounds like you think the class identity of the administration is enough to say so, but I could be wrong. I don't see that as sufficient. regular strawmanning and misframing I may have misrepresented your or others' perspectives, but if so it was not intentional. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 6 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child) The working classes control the state Do you mean (1) that the collective will of the working class directs the behavior of the state, or (2) that managers of the state are members of the working class? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 2 points 6 months ago I will postpone further judgement until having read it permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago* (1 child) That’s only true if you assume the government is actually a representation of the will of the people of the DPRK Everything you're baselessly insinuating only makes sense if you assume a priori that it isn't. This is just you inverting your uninformed position and assuming it must be ours too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 1 point 6 months ago you assume a priori that it isn't I'm open to the idea that is is, but all the evidence I've seen this far indicates that it isn't, and no one has given evidence that it is permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 1 point 6 months ago you assume a priori that it isn't I'm open to the idea that is is, but all the evidence I've seen this far indicates that it isn't, and no one has given evidence that it is permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] -1 points 6 months ago (2 children) The classes in power in the DPRK are the working classes Whether this is true is really what I'm trying to determine, and currently skeptical of. I guess it may be difficult to prove or disprove. It sounds like you think the class identity of the administration is enough to say so, but I could be wrong. I don't see that as sufficient. regular strawmanning and misframing I may have misrepresented your or others' perspectives, but if so it was not intentional. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 6 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child) The working classes control the state Do you mean (1) that the collective will of the working class directs the behavior of the state, or (2) that managers of the state are members of the working class? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 2 points 6 months ago I will postpone further judgement until having read it permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] -1 points 6 months ago (2 children) The classes in power in the DPRK are the working classes Whether this is true is really what I'm trying to determine, and currently skeptical of. I guess it may be difficult to prove or disprove. It sounds like you think the class identity of the administration is enough to say so, but I could be wrong. I don't see that as sufficient. regular strawmanning and misframing I may have misrepresented your or others' perspectives, but if so it was not intentional. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 6 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child) The working classes control the state Do you mean (1) that the collective will of the working class directs the behavior of the state, or (2) that managers of the state are members of the working class? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 2 points 6 months ago I will postpone further judgement until having read it permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 6 months ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child) The working classes control the state Do you mean (1) that the collective will of the working class directs the behavior of the state, or (2) that managers of the state are members of the working class? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 2 points 6 months ago I will postpone further judgement until having read it permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child) The working classes control the state Do you mean (1) that the collective will of the working class directs the behavior of the state, or (2) that managers of the state are members of the working class? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 2 points 6 months ago I will postpone further judgement until having read it permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 2 points 6 months ago I will postpone further judgement until having read it permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dragon@lemmy.ml [S] 2 points 6 months ago I will postpone further judgement until having read it permalink fedilink source parent