▲ 513 ▼ Leak Shows ICE Planning to Use Facial Recognition Glasses to Identify Targets in Real Time (futurism.com) submitted 6 months ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world 76 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Mongostein@lemmy.ca 16 points 6 months ago (16 children) Time to carry portable EMPs … uhhh how do I make one? permalink fedilink source hideshow 16 child comments replies: [–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (14 children) You don't need a portable EMP. All you need is basic KN95 mask and a hoodie. Or you can invest in sunglasses or ID-blocking eyeglasses, like IDGuard from Zenni. The point is to have your features covered as much as is feasible. When I go to a protest I wear a costume that covers my whole head and a jumpsuit. You should have a KN95 on anyway if you're going out among people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 8 points 6 months ago (10 children) You should know facial recognition software is optimized to defeat KN95 masks specifically permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago (2 children) What do you think what you posted even means? covering most of what it is using to identify is already going to make it drastically more difficult to match permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child) Not really. It’s trivial to match your face. If you use an iPhone with FaceID it won’t miss a beat. You have to cover your full face, head, and eyes. The problem with this is that the idea of “KN95 and a hoodie” is that you’d still reasonably blend in. By the time you reach the point t of covering every identified part of your head, you’d also stick out like a sore thumb which doesn’t help you when the camera surveilling you is attached to the face of an ICE agent looking specifically in your direction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago Face id is putting a very good camera very close to your face and asking it if the face inches from the screen and stationary with respect to the camera matches exactly one face. Facial recognition is asking a worse camera if a moving partially obscured face is one of 338M legal residents and citizens or potentially millions of illegal folks. Since this is inherently an incredibly harder task it doesn't take much to make it impossible. permalink fedilink source parent [–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (2 children) Then wear a cloth one with a pattern on it. This isn't difficult. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago (1 child) That won’t work either and it’s very difficult as a matter of fact. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Agreed that there's no perfect solution. But one can, and should, make it harder, and if your head, eyes, and face are covered (which is exceedingly easy and inexpensive to do with a ball cap, sunglasses, and a face mask) it's going to beat all but the best systems. permalink fedilink source parent [–] NekoKoneko@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago (3 children) Do you have a reliable link to show this? I'm asking not to challenge or sealion, but because I'd like to know the limits of what you're referring to for my own safety and privacy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago (2 children) https://support.apple.com/en-us/102452 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NekoKoneko@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (1 child) Thanks. I think that's enough to see where you're going. It's on me to find better evidence, so I looked and it looks like a 2020 NIST report suggests masks increase the failure rate in 89 tested algorithms from 0.3% to 5-50%. https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2020/07/nist-launches-studies-masks-effect-face-recognition-software That failure rate is enough to give plausible deniability and reasonable doubt in a court, I'd wager. But I'm sure ICE sees a higher failure rate a feature since it likely gives them more pretexts to arrest. At least we know the technology isn't reliable enough to support it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago* I mean court’s not really a factor. The surveillance tech is only to help identify targets. One they nab you that’s it. The Supreme Court already ruled that it’s ok for them to target people based only on race. The confidence level of the tech against your covered face is sorta irrelevant in this scenario. permalink fedilink source parent [–] root@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago The IR blocking glasses won't help with normal CV though, right? If you wear those glasses and try to unlock your iPhone, it won't work because the IR array can't read the facial features behind the glasses, but if you take a photo of yourself with said iPhone, they will appear as normal glasses permalink fedilink source parent [–] other_cat@piefed.zip 1 point 6 months ago Suddenly reminded of an article I saw from like... TEN years ago talking about anti-surveillance makeup and haircuts. It was just like painting block shapes in multiple colors on your face haha. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Mongostein@lemmy.ca 1 point 6 months ago Sure, but that won’t knock it out for people who don’t have their own mask permalink fedilink source parent [–] MML@sh.itjust.works 1 point 6 months ago Get a disposable camera, it won't be large enough to do much but it's a fun little project and you can learn the concept permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (14 children) You don't need a portable EMP. All you need is basic KN95 mask and a hoodie. Or you can invest in sunglasses or ID-blocking eyeglasses, like IDGuard from Zenni. The point is to have your features covered as much as is feasible. When I go to a protest I wear a costume that covers my whole head and a jumpsuit. You should have a KN95 on anyway if you're going out among people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 8 points 6 months ago (10 children) You should know facial recognition software is optimized to defeat KN95 masks specifically permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago (2 children) What do you think what you posted even means? covering most of what it is using to identify is already going to make it drastically more difficult to match permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child) Not really. It’s trivial to match your face. If you use an iPhone with FaceID it won’t miss a beat. You have to cover your full face, head, and eyes. The problem with this is that the idea of “KN95 and a hoodie” is that you’d still reasonably blend in. By the time you reach the point t of covering every identified part of your head, you’d also stick out like a sore thumb which doesn’t help you when the camera surveilling you is attached to the face of an ICE agent looking specifically in your direction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago Face id is putting a very good camera very close to your face and asking it if the face inches from the screen and stationary with respect to the camera matches exactly one face. Facial recognition is asking a worse camera if a moving partially obscured face is one of 338M legal residents and citizens or potentially millions of illegal folks. Since this is inherently an incredibly harder task it doesn't take much to make it impossible. permalink fedilink source parent [–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (2 children) Then wear a cloth one with a pattern on it. This isn't difficult. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago (1 child) That won’t work either and it’s very difficult as a matter of fact. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Agreed that there's no perfect solution. But one can, and should, make it harder, and if your head, eyes, and face are covered (which is exceedingly easy and inexpensive to do with a ball cap, sunglasses, and a face mask) it's going to beat all but the best systems. permalink fedilink source parent [–] NekoKoneko@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago (3 children) Do you have a reliable link to show this? I'm asking not to challenge or sealion, but because I'd like to know the limits of what you're referring to for my own safety and privacy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago (2 children) https://support.apple.com/en-us/102452 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NekoKoneko@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (1 child) Thanks. I think that's enough to see where you're going. It's on me to find better evidence, so I looked and it looks like a 2020 NIST report suggests masks increase the failure rate in 89 tested algorithms from 0.3% to 5-50%. https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2020/07/nist-launches-studies-masks-effect-face-recognition-software That failure rate is enough to give plausible deniability and reasonable doubt in a court, I'd wager. But I'm sure ICE sees a higher failure rate a feature since it likely gives them more pretexts to arrest. At least we know the technology isn't reliable enough to support it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago* I mean court’s not really a factor. The surveillance tech is only to help identify targets. One they nab you that’s it. The Supreme Court already ruled that it’s ok for them to target people based only on race. The confidence level of the tech against your covered face is sorta irrelevant in this scenario. permalink fedilink source parent [–] root@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago The IR blocking glasses won't help with normal CV though, right? If you wear those glasses and try to unlock your iPhone, it won't work because the IR array can't read the facial features behind the glasses, but if you take a photo of yourself with said iPhone, they will appear as normal glasses permalink fedilink source parent [–] other_cat@piefed.zip 1 point 6 months ago Suddenly reminded of an article I saw from like... TEN years ago talking about anti-surveillance makeup and haircuts. It was just like painting block shapes in multiple colors on your face haha. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Mongostein@lemmy.ca 1 point 6 months ago Sure, but that won’t knock it out for people who don’t have their own mask permalink fedilink source parent
[–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 8 points 6 months ago (10 children) You should know facial recognition software is optimized to defeat KN95 masks specifically permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago (2 children) What do you think what you posted even means? covering most of what it is using to identify is already going to make it drastically more difficult to match permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child) Not really. It’s trivial to match your face. If you use an iPhone with FaceID it won’t miss a beat. You have to cover your full face, head, and eyes. The problem with this is that the idea of “KN95 and a hoodie” is that you’d still reasonably blend in. By the time you reach the point t of covering every identified part of your head, you’d also stick out like a sore thumb which doesn’t help you when the camera surveilling you is attached to the face of an ICE agent looking specifically in your direction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago Face id is putting a very good camera very close to your face and asking it if the face inches from the screen and stationary with respect to the camera matches exactly one face. Facial recognition is asking a worse camera if a moving partially obscured face is one of 338M legal residents and citizens or potentially millions of illegal folks. Since this is inherently an incredibly harder task it doesn't take much to make it impossible. permalink fedilink source parent [–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (2 children) Then wear a cloth one with a pattern on it. This isn't difficult. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago (1 child) That won’t work either and it’s very difficult as a matter of fact. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Agreed that there's no perfect solution. But one can, and should, make it harder, and if your head, eyes, and face are covered (which is exceedingly easy and inexpensive to do with a ball cap, sunglasses, and a face mask) it's going to beat all but the best systems. permalink fedilink source parent [–] NekoKoneko@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago (3 children) Do you have a reliable link to show this? I'm asking not to challenge or sealion, but because I'd like to know the limits of what you're referring to for my own safety and privacy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago (2 children) https://support.apple.com/en-us/102452 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NekoKoneko@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (1 child) Thanks. I think that's enough to see where you're going. It's on me to find better evidence, so I looked and it looks like a 2020 NIST report suggests masks increase the failure rate in 89 tested algorithms from 0.3% to 5-50%. https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2020/07/nist-launches-studies-masks-effect-face-recognition-software That failure rate is enough to give plausible deniability and reasonable doubt in a court, I'd wager. But I'm sure ICE sees a higher failure rate a feature since it likely gives them more pretexts to arrest. At least we know the technology isn't reliable enough to support it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago* I mean court’s not really a factor. The surveillance tech is only to help identify targets. One they nab you that’s it. The Supreme Court already ruled that it’s ok for them to target people based only on race. The confidence level of the tech against your covered face is sorta irrelevant in this scenario. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago (2 children) What do you think what you posted even means? covering most of what it is using to identify is already going to make it drastically more difficult to match permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child) Not really. It’s trivial to match your face. If you use an iPhone with FaceID it won’t miss a beat. You have to cover your full face, head, and eyes. The problem with this is that the idea of “KN95 and a hoodie” is that you’d still reasonably blend in. By the time you reach the point t of covering every identified part of your head, you’d also stick out like a sore thumb which doesn’t help you when the camera surveilling you is attached to the face of an ICE agent looking specifically in your direction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago Face id is putting a very good camera very close to your face and asking it if the face inches from the screen and stationary with respect to the camera matches exactly one face. Facial recognition is asking a worse camera if a moving partially obscured face is one of 338M legal residents and citizens or potentially millions of illegal folks. Since this is inherently an incredibly harder task it doesn't take much to make it impossible. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child) Not really. It’s trivial to match your face. If you use an iPhone with FaceID it won’t miss a beat. You have to cover your full face, head, and eyes. The problem with this is that the idea of “KN95 and a hoodie” is that you’d still reasonably blend in. By the time you reach the point t of covering every identified part of your head, you’d also stick out like a sore thumb which doesn’t help you when the camera surveilling you is attached to the face of an ICE agent looking specifically in your direction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago Face id is putting a very good camera very close to your face and asking it if the face inches from the screen and stationary with respect to the camera matches exactly one face. Facial recognition is asking a worse camera if a moving partially obscured face is one of 338M legal residents and citizens or potentially millions of illegal folks. Since this is inherently an incredibly harder task it doesn't take much to make it impossible. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] michaelmrose@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago Face id is putting a very good camera very close to your face and asking it if the face inches from the screen and stationary with respect to the camera matches exactly one face. Facial recognition is asking a worse camera if a moving partially obscured face is one of 338M legal residents and citizens or potentially millions of illegal folks. Since this is inherently an incredibly harder task it doesn't take much to make it impossible. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (2 children) Then wear a cloth one with a pattern on it. This isn't difficult. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago (1 child) That won’t work either and it’s very difficult as a matter of fact. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Agreed that there's no perfect solution. But one can, and should, make it harder, and if your head, eyes, and face are covered (which is exceedingly easy and inexpensive to do with a ball cap, sunglasses, and a face mask) it's going to beat all but the best systems. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago (1 child) That won’t work either and it’s very difficult as a matter of fact. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Agreed that there's no perfect solution. But one can, and should, make it harder, and if your head, eyes, and face are covered (which is exceedingly easy and inexpensive to do with a ball cap, sunglasses, and a face mask) it's going to beat all but the best systems. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) Agreed that there's no perfect solution. But one can, and should, make it harder, and if your head, eyes, and face are covered (which is exceedingly easy and inexpensive to do with a ball cap, sunglasses, and a face mask) it's going to beat all but the best systems. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] NekoKoneko@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago (3 children) Do you have a reliable link to show this? I'm asking not to challenge or sealion, but because I'd like to know the limits of what you're referring to for my own safety and privacy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago (2 children) https://support.apple.com/en-us/102452 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NekoKoneko@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (1 child) Thanks. I think that's enough to see where you're going. It's on me to find better evidence, so I looked and it looks like a 2020 NIST report suggests masks increase the failure rate in 89 tested algorithms from 0.3% to 5-50%. https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2020/07/nist-launches-studies-masks-effect-face-recognition-software That failure rate is enough to give plausible deniability and reasonable doubt in a court, I'd wager. But I'm sure ICE sees a higher failure rate a feature since it likely gives them more pretexts to arrest. At least we know the technology isn't reliable enough to support it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago* I mean court’s not really a factor. The surveillance tech is only to help identify targets. One they nab you that’s it. The Supreme Court already ruled that it’s ok for them to target people based only on race. The confidence level of the tech against your covered face is sorta irrelevant in this scenario. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago (2 children) https://support.apple.com/en-us/102452 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NekoKoneko@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (1 child) Thanks. I think that's enough to see where you're going. It's on me to find better evidence, so I looked and it looks like a 2020 NIST report suggests masks increase the failure rate in 89 tested algorithms from 0.3% to 5-50%. https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2020/07/nist-launches-studies-masks-effect-face-recognition-software That failure rate is enough to give plausible deniability and reasonable doubt in a court, I'd wager. But I'm sure ICE sees a higher failure rate a feature since it likely gives them more pretexts to arrest. At least we know the technology isn't reliable enough to support it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago* I mean court’s not really a factor. The surveillance tech is only to help identify targets. One they nab you that’s it. The Supreme Court already ruled that it’s ok for them to target people based only on race. The confidence level of the tech against your covered face is sorta irrelevant in this scenario. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] NekoKoneko@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (1 child) Thanks. I think that's enough to see where you're going. It's on me to find better evidence, so I looked and it looks like a 2020 NIST report suggests masks increase the failure rate in 89 tested algorithms from 0.3% to 5-50%. https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2020/07/nist-launches-studies-masks-effect-face-recognition-software That failure rate is enough to give plausible deniability and reasonable doubt in a court, I'd wager. But I'm sure ICE sees a higher failure rate a feature since it likely gives them more pretexts to arrest. At least we know the technology isn't reliable enough to support it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago* I mean court’s not really a factor. The surveillance tech is only to help identify targets. One they nab you that’s it. The Supreme Court already ruled that it’s ok for them to target people based only on race. The confidence level of the tech against your covered face is sorta irrelevant in this scenario. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago* I mean court’s not really a factor. The surveillance tech is only to help identify targets. One they nab you that’s it. The Supreme Court already ruled that it’s ok for them to target people based only on race. The confidence level of the tech against your covered face is sorta irrelevant in this scenario. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] root@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago The IR blocking glasses won't help with normal CV though, right? If you wear those glasses and try to unlock your iPhone, it won't work because the IR array can't read the facial features behind the glasses, but if you take a photo of yourself with said iPhone, they will appear as normal glasses permalink fedilink source parent
[–] other_cat@piefed.zip 1 point 6 months ago Suddenly reminded of an article I saw from like... TEN years ago talking about anti-surveillance makeup and haircuts. It was just like painting block shapes in multiple colors on your face haha. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Mongostein@lemmy.ca 1 point 6 months ago Sure, but that won’t knock it out for people who don’t have their own mask permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MML@sh.itjust.works 1 point 6 months ago Get a disposable camera, it won't be large enough to do much but it's a fun little project and you can learn the concept permalink fedilink source parent