1495
To those in countries where democracy might last another election - harm reduction is not optional (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
521 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 1 point 1 year ago (8 children)

He did some lefty things sure, but most of those were dramatically weaker than they could and should have been. He also spent the majority of his efforts on right-wing policies.

You can keep complaining that it's not enough for leftists, and you'd be right. Someone who half-asses a bunch of leftist policies, and hardcore pushes a bunch of right-wing policies is not going to be supported by leftists.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (7 children)

    Are you serious? The question is how do you get more left things? The answer is to reward the left things that happen. Tell Show them that doing left things gets you voted in.

    Right now they are punished for the left things they do. So what's the logical course of action? Drop them and move to the center. To find voters that actually show up.

    Cmon. This is simple.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    They are punished because they sprinkle a couple of left things into a mountain of right-wing policies, and keep telling us that we should be grateful. When actually try to push left-wing stuff, they get massive support from voters. When they continuously push right-wing bullshit, they lose support.

    Look at Sander's/AOC's approval ratings. Look at the Fight the Oligarchs rallys. Look at the BLM movements. Look at the NYC election.

    Then look at the votes for the increasingly right-wing presidential candidates. Look at the approval ratings for those candidates.

    Notice a correlation? When they lean left, they get more support from voters. When they lean right, they get less support.

    How has moving to the center been working out? If moving to the center has been helping them get more votes, why do they keep losing in what should be easily-winnable elections?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (5 children)

    Polls (effectively what they are) are idealized. I remember one person before the election kept saying "polls show people don't want fracking Dems just need to be against fracking and it'll be a landslide." Yeah fucking right, right until the GOP starts shouting "it'll raise raise gas prices, they're going to raise gas prices. Prices prices prices, inflation inflation inflation". Trump won on the economy. When the rubber meets the road, in actual elections, on the national stage, the left policy gets punished and hilariously by the left.

    Oh yeah more on polls. I already covered it: Tell Show them that doing left things gets you voted in. Polls is telling (kinda). Votes is showing. Showing is orders of magnitude more important.

    They only win when they go to the center. Here's my copy paste because I have this conversation so much.

    Ok let's go through this chronologically.

    Bill Clinton: After successive Dem losses Bill figured out "it's the economy stupid", aka center policy, not leftist policy. Plus when you run against an incumbent (Bush senior) you generally run from the center. So that's what he did. And he won.

    Gore: After the population hopefully warmed up with Bill Clinton, he stuck his head out left with climate change. And bam he lost the election. Thanks 3rd party protest voters! Aka: The left never shows up.

    Obama: So guess what Obama learned? Don’t stick your head out. He ran on broad “hope” and “yes we can” and having energy, hoping the ambiguity would be enough considering Bush’s disastrous wars. And he won.

    More on Obama: So he enacted the ACA. That's great, right? The thanks Obama got for that was to lose the House of Representatives for year 3 and 4. And lose the House of reps again for years 5 and 6. And then lose both the House of reps and the Senate for years 7 and 8. He enacted left policy and: The left never shows up.

    Hillary Clinton: So what did Hillary learn from the last 6 years of Obama? She learned that the left never shows up. So she only stuck her head out with a big position to left on the map room to climate change. She basically declared war on climate change. You know that big existential issue that all the leftists care about, right? The big important issue that the left says they want so badly, right? And guess what happened? Bam she lost. Thanks protest non-voters! Aka: The left never shows up.

    Biden: Just like Obama learned from Gore, Biden learned from Hillary that you don't stick your head out left on anything. Not one thing. And he was running against an incumbent, so once again when you do that you run center. And he won.

    Biden in office: But he did left things anyway. He did green energy, EVs, drug price control, PACT act, Chips act, etc. And what were the results? Lost the House of Representatives for years 3 and 4. Polls showed him losing the election to Trump. He enacted left policy and: The left didn't show up for midterms, and was not going to show up for the next election.

    Harris: Harris ran on abortion rights, democracy and it was apparent she'd continue green energy. She relied on the left to show up for their rights and for democracy. They couldn't even do that. Aka the left never shows up. (Btw Bill Clinton was right, it's the economy stupid. Trump won on the economy.)

    And people are amazed that they don't run a big left platform? Every time they rely on the left they lose. Every Single Time. And the next guy learns to go to the center to win. Because the center voters actually show up.

    With this history, you’d be an absolute fool to cater to and rely on the left. Because. They. Never. Show. Up.

    So how do you get them to move left? By giving them victories first. Consistent and overwhelming victories. Show them it’s safe to take policy chances. Because right now every time they run on left platforms or enact left policies, they lose.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Gore won the votes in election. The system wouldn't let him claim the win.

    Yes, Obama gave a us the terrible ACA, which was drastically less than it should have been. He also abandoned most of his lefty campaign promses, and basically ran as a Republican, as he himself admitted. So yes, lefties didn't show up after that. Why would lefties be happy about a supposedly leftist candidate who self admittedly ran like a Republican?

    Hillary lost because she is cartoonishly evil, and clearly campaigned on things that she had no intention of doing. She is practically the embodiment of the lying Corporate Democrats, so I don't see why you think she would get votes from the left.

    Biden barely won when Trump was at his lowest. It took our lowest-approval rated president, at his worst time, for Biden to win. And once Biden got into office, he ran mostly to the right, with a few small leftist things sprinkled in. His approval kept declining as he continued to do right-wing things. Why you think a right-wing running president should expect to get votes from the left is beyond me.

    Harris said she approved of, and would continue with Biden's mostly right-wing policies, all while chasing to the right after Trump.

    You keep saying that leftists don't show up, but then point to mostly right-wing politicians, who run mostly right-wing campaigns and policies as your evidence. Meanwhile, actual leftists keep gaining popularity. We have plenty of evidence of voters showing up for the left, but we don't have evidence of politicians actually doing lefty things. It seems logical to me that when politicians pretend they are on the left, but end up moving to the right, that leftist-voters don't show up for them.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    If left policy was this "if they just did it, it'd be a landslide" that the left keeps telling me, then gore would have been a landslide, right? Nope.

    Obama. That's what I said, he ran center. and guess what happened???? HE WON. That was the whole point. The only times they win is when they go to the center. Thank you for admitting it. [Slow clap.]

    But when in office he did left things like the ACA: N n n n n n n n n n (how many n's should I have?) not good enough! This is a perfect example of how nothing will be good enough. Want more? They have to walk before they run.

    Hilary: "I'll do this". You: "LIAR". How do I even respond to this, you're just shutting out reality at this point. No conversation can be had, so this is my last message. Oh and it doesn't even matter because that's what she ran on and that left policy is what lost. That was the whole point.

    Both Hilary and Obama you're doing mental gymnastics to avoid the point: center wins elections, left loses elections. That was the whole point.

    Biden. That's how he won. That was the whole point. You're 3 for 3 on missing the point that center wins and left loses.

    Green energy. you: "RIGHT WING NONSENSE". Student debt relief. You: "MORE RIGHT WING NONSENSE". Repeat ad nauseum.

    I was wrong, it wasn't n n n not good enough. You're just doing mental gymnastics to avoid the point and then shutting out reality. Ciao.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    You are correct. The ACA was not good enough. We could have healthcare for all, but instead we got giant handouts to Health Insurance companies. Once again, Obama himself said that he was basically an old-school Republican. It seems pretty logical to me that leftists don't want right wing politicians.

    If being a leftist loses elections, how come the aforementioned politicans campaign on leftist policies, then abandon them? It seems like the entire point of their strategy is to appear leftist, then suddenly run to the right once they get elected. That strategy only works if leftists bring in the votes.

    If you keep ignoring my points about how badly Trump had to be for Biden to win, then no, you won't ever really understand what I'm saying. But if you actually engage with what I said, that changes things.

    Biden did half-ass green energy. I applaud him for that, while saying it was still nearly not good enough. Biden did less than the bare minimum that he campaigned on for debt relief. Yes, I don't think that is good enough.

    A left candidate would not have done more drilling for oil than first term trump. A left candidate would have eliminated the student-debt system altogether. A candidate that leftists would vote for would not have deported massive amounts of people, while bailing out his rich friends, and bombing children.

    Biden ran on a lot of those things, and as he abandoned them, his approval rating tanked. Weird, how that works.

    You are correct, that your examples of right-wing politicians doing minorly leftist policy aren't good enough. I don't know why you think that is an argumentative win.

    I haven't shut out anything. I keep bringing up points, and you keep saying "n n n not good enough", as though it's an actual argument.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •