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Party like it's 1922 20th Century History (media.piefed.social)
submitted 8 months ago by to c/historymemes@piefed.social
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[–] 63 points 8 months ago (16 children)

Oh never mind Stalin was nine to thirty million dead Lenin was only four to fourteen million.

I keep confusing these mass murdering communist heads of state.

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago* (6 children)

    Okay Stalin was just a dipshit but most people you're counting against Lenin died in circumstances legitimately out of his control (the civil war and the famine resulting thereof). He was still a dipshit, but not a mass murdering dipshit.

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    I mean, I don't know how much blame I'd ascribe to Lenin, but his 'war communism' policy was very much a contributor to the famine.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago

    I mean true but save for some weird decisions (something something bag men) that strictly goes under the war part; I can forgive the Bolsheviks for not pulling punches while fighting literal fascists, and they did address the problem as soon as they knew about it. War communism didn't need to be as brutal or as far-reaching as it was, but for the most part it was an acceptable play in a terrible situation.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (3 children)

    The famine in question (early '20s, not the later famine that resulted from de-kulakization) was made much worse because Lenin kept exporting food during it. The Bolsheviks did this because it was their only source of the foreign credit they needed to buy the machine tools and whatnot they needed to ramp up their industrial sector. I wouldn't call that "war communism", just straight "communism" as per Marx they felt industrialization was everything.

    Interestingly, the only reason the death toll from this earlier famine wasn't even larger was that Herbert Hoover (of all people) organized an international relief effort that at one point was feeding about 10% of the USSR. When the agricultural situation improved, the Bolsheviks neglected to tell Hoover.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    The famine in question (early ‘20s, not the later famine that resulted from de-kulakization) was made much worse because Lenin kept exporting food during it. The Bolsheviks did this because it was their only source of the foreign credit they needed to buy the machine tools and whatnot they needed to ramp up their industrial sector.

    I really think you're mixing up the famines. Export of food to acquire industrial capital was a major motivation during the Holodomor. During the Russian Civil War, the motivation was to keep the Red Army fed and in the field without having to make concessions to the peasants, independent regions, or demobilizing any troops.

    I wouldn’t call that “war communism”, just straight “communism” as per Marx they felt industrialization was everything.

    War Communism is a reference to a specific set of policies adopted during the Russian Civil War.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    I really think you’re mixing up the famines.

    I'm not mixing up the famines. During both famines the USSR was using agricultural products (their only significant export) to acquire industrial capital. The reason I'm talking about the first famine is that we're talking about Lenin here, who was long dead by the second famine.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 8 months ago

    To my knowledge, grain export was not a major contributor to the first famine, especially since the Allied blockade wasn't even lifted until the famine was already underway. Even as late as 1923 Soviet imports of food was considerable (and much of the remainder being consumer goods and raw materials, not industrial machinery) with industrialization not being emphasized until the 14th Party Congress in late 1925.

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    But Lenin has a fancy sarcophagus so he gets a free pass.

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago

    It's ironic that you say "sarcophagus" because the only reason Lenin was mummified was that King Tut's tomb had been discovered just before his death. Pravda had covered the discovery extensively and the Bolsheviks decided to capitalize on Tut's popularity by preserving Lenin's corpse -- in hilariously amateurish fashion, since mummification was not something regularly done in Russia.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    Bro, I mix them up too. Don't worry. I know that Lenin came first and that he didn't want Stalin to take over after him because he was too radical or something. But saying no to Stalin is like saying no to Putin. The word doesn't exist to them. But when it comes to numbers and statistics of who did what, I fuck it up constantly. I'm also not at all super knowledgeable about Russian history. Had a brief obsession with the Romanov dynasty, which is its own can of fucked up worms, but when it comes to communism, it's just so uniquely awful and demotivating to hear and read about that I tune out. Communism to my brain, is the gray apartment blocks where everything looks the same and there is no life and beauty anywhere.

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