So, lets say we get to August or some summer month, and 4,000,000 people are protesting right out front the white house.

Do they send in the tanks? Do they kill 1,000,000 people? Would republican civilians see empathy for the dead americans who were democrats? Or would it unite the nation like 9/11 did, except this time against the government?

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[–] 253 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (76 children)

In 1970, the National Guard opened fire on a crowd of peaceful, unarmed students, killing four and wounding nine more. A Gallup poll conducted a week after the shooting found that 58% of Americans blamed the students for the massacre, with only 11% blaming the guardsmen. Many students who were present at the massacre were shunned by their own families, some were even disowned, and some were told that even more students should have been killed to teach them a lesson.

The students, for their part, couldn't even comprehend what was happening at first. Many of them thought the soldiers' weapons were loaded with blanks, that they were just trying to intimidate them. After the massacre, many of the students wanted to reassemble and continue peacefully demonstrating, in defiance of the guard. One of the professors convinced them to disperse, by shouting at them that all of them would be killed.

How was it possible for the public to see it that way? Because of how the media spun it. Even before the massacre, they were saying that the protests were full of "outside agitators" and claiming that they had been doing things like lacing the water supply with LSD. Of course, it eventually "came out" that these claims were complete bullshit based on nothing. So, once the moment had passed, they quietly printed retractions.

All that shit still happens today. It happens every single time a cop murders someone, whether it's Renee Good or George Floyd. The right wingers immediately start digging for any possible way to spin it and if they can't then they simply lie, and if the lie falls apart it doesn't matter, by that point people will have forgotten and moved on.

Yes they will kill you. They'll put people down like dogs and worry about how to justify it later. People want to believe the world is just, and that often means blaming the victim. They'll do it and they'll get away with it too.

Buy a gun.

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Campus is the grounds and buildings of a university or college. If it's on the campus it's in the university.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    It's a sarcastic reference to communists correctly pointing out that the deaths on June 4th, 1989 were in and around Beijing, not on Tian'anmen square itself. It's a comment intentionally undermining how communists are dispelling Red Scare mythos.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (38 children)

    Lol buying a gun won't fix anything. You need to train with it and connect with other people who know how to use guns (and who can get other resources for you) or well, Luigi Mangione can tell you the other option.

    Just consuming gun won't fix anything.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    My question is, why do authoritarians try so hard to disarm a populace then? It seems every person thinks we'll have a large formation of troops fighting it out and not turn this into any number of guerilla resistance movements against the USA and other countries throughout time.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    There's 1.5 guns per person in the USA, but we also have the largest prison population per capita in the world.

    I can't name an authoritarian that started by disarming people. My guess would be there comes a point where disarming the populace happens in authoritarian process as part of "disarming the enemy". When the enemy is the public, you disarm all of them.

    So succesful authoritarians eventually just reach the point where the public is the enemy. They either get there by killing people or imprisoning them or starving them.

    In the US they're making housing unaffordable. You sell your gun to pay rent, problem solved for the wealthy. There's much higher death rates for homeless people. There have been a number of stats that say the US has similar death rates to societies in civil wars.

    If guns were used as a solution I think we'd see more sherriffs and deputies being shot during evictions.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (35 children)

    How do you train with a gun if you don't have one?

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago* (34 children)

    You can get a gun without buying it. Luigi mangione allegedly bought about half a gun

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (33 children)

    Personally, I would rather not walk around with an object that would land me in prison if it were discovered.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (32 children)

    Where I live first infraction for a ghost gun is a fine so prison seems a bit dramatic.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (29 children)

    "The last rope they sell us will be the one we hang them with." I don't like the idea of giving money to war profiteers any more than you do, but it is an unfortunate necessity.

    The only way guns are going to matter in a realistic sense is if people are afraid to shoot you because they’ll get shot

    Um... yes. That's the point?

    If there’s actually some kind of civil war you’ll get guns an ammo from the army.

    From what army? What are you talking about?

    Is your plan to rely on the US government to arm the proletariat?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (15 children)

    Yes, it's exactly the same as telling people to buy ovaltine. Ovaltine will definitely help you kill fascists just as much as a gun will.

    Your position is so fucking stupid, and every angle you tried to defend it from has fallen apart under the tiniest bit of scrutiny. Including this one.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (9 children)

    “Buying a gun” is the tankie version of libs saying “go vote”. Solves nothing, they say it will fix everything.

    Where did I say that it would "fix everything?" Weren't you just complaining about "mischaracterizing arguments" (which I never did)?

    Again, you're just looking for reasons to attack me for no reason. No idea what crawled up your ass but it has nothing to do with anything I've actually said.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    You said the magic platitude. If somebody put "go vote" at the bottom of the kent state shooting I would also have issues.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    So I'm not allowed to tell anyone to do anything if that one thing doesn't magically fix all the problems in the world?

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago* (6 children)

    If its a stupid platitude and you're writing an otherwise good post about kent state, yes.

    Let things be complex. You don't need to prescribe gun ownership after fucking kent state. You don't need to tell people to go vote, either. Its so fucking dumb.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    That's stupid. If I went into sufficient depth to satisfy you (and only you, btw), nobody would read it because of the length.

    I've addressed all your objections and each time you just invent some new bullshit to try to justify why you got all pissy in the first place. Just fuck off already.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    You never addressed my first post. You literally did a "how you train with gun without buy guy" gotcha thing then just never addressed it. You still havent addressed it, truth be told.

    So again, you're just responding to shit. Its not even new bullshit. I'm just saying the same thing over and over again in different ways. "Buy a gun" is an overprescribed oversimplified conclusion and the reason you didn't connect it to kent state is not because it would be "boring" but because its trite "go out and vote" type bullshit.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    Man, fuck off. Like you didn't make shit up over an over, that whole "1776" line, get the fuck out. Just drop it. Reply again and I'll block you.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    "buy a gun" is the 1776 line. You can't really think that offering the same exact advice as fascists is actually effective, do you?

    Go ahead and block me. Imagine the kind of trite bullshit I'll miss out on.

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  • [+] -13 points 9 months ago (14 children)

    No, what the hell, don't buy a gun for that reason. That will only escalate the violence. And there's only so far that you can escalate as a civilian until they roll out the tanks, and your guns can't do shit against tanks.

    You need power in numbers. That's how you can build a proper resistance.

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  • [–] 45 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Seems to be they are escalating the violence with or without us.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    They're pulling back? Let's see what happens in Springfield because last I checked, they were escalating even before Good died. I'm not convinced at all they are slowing down because people aren't violent, not at all. I think they aren't escalating as fast as they want because they're worried people will turn violent and no jury would convict someone taking down an ice officer.

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  • [–] 22 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    as a civilian until they roll out the tanks, and your guns can’t do shit against tanks.

    CIA would like to present you Simple Sabotage Field Manual solving all your needs in that department.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Sabotage_Field_Manual

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    This was one of the most enjoyable reads I've had over morning coffee in a long time. Thank you for sharing this. Also, for anyone who wants a cleaned up pdf version that 404 Media encouraged people to check out, it can be found here:

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  • [–] 25 points 9 months ago

    You need numbers and you need those numbers to have guns. They are not stopping, they do not care about right or wrong, and there is no telling how far they're going to go. Without the threat of armed resistance, what is stopping them from open massacres?

    Guns will not keep you safe, granted. But not having a gun obviously won't keep you safe either. Think about what you're saying, you're relying on the fascists to act in good faith, out of the kindness of their hearts. That's nonsense.

    Nonviolence is a tactic, it can be an effective tactic, but it is only a tactic. If conditions reach a point where that tactic is not applicable or effective, then it will be time to change tactics. What's the plan if they start firing up the gas chambers?

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    That peaceful bullshit only benefits the oligarchy. There's not a single right you have that wasn't won via violence.

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  • Transgender rights

    You mean the rights that largely don't exist in half of the US?

    As of July 2025, 40.1% or 120,400 trans youth aged 13-17 are living in the 27 states that have passed bans on gender-affirming care. This includes 2,300 youth living in the two states–Arkansas and Montana–where bans are currently on hold or blocked from enforcement through court orders.

    While our map focuses solely on high school-aged youth (age 13-17), some states, such as Oklahoma, Texas, and South Carolina, have considered banning care for transgender people up to 26 years of age. Additionally, several states prohibit public funds from being used to provide transgender health care for anyone, so adults are also unable to access critical health services if they receive their healthcare through Medicaid, if they work in the public sector, or are incarcerated.

    Trans people were already reporting their identifying documents like passports, birth certificates, driver's licenses, and social security cards were being confiscated in the period after the election and before Trump got into office.

    We haven't "won" trans rights, we've only had them because the fascists hadn't yet gotten around to destroying them. Violence in one form or another is a requirement for successful change, whether that violence be economic or otherwise. The oppressor isn't going to give you justice simply because you demand it. It wasn't until after MLK was murdered and billions of dollars in property damage were done that Civil Rights were drafted, voted on, and signed into law - one week of rioting after his death.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    You're a goddamn coward and you deserve to however they treat you. But let's be honest, you won't leave the "safety" of your home till they drag you out of it. You're just going to sit on your ass and criticize those of us who do fight. Broke wristed pacifist, fuck you.

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  • [+] -6 points 9 months ago (14 children)

    You had me right up to the last word.

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  • [–] 32 points 9 months ago (13 children)

    That nonviolent shit will get you killed.

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  • [–] 45 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    The guy who got killed doing nonviolent shit?

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago* (3 children)

    Yes, there's a chance he'd still be alive today if he did so, and there'd be at least one fewer fascist.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    There's a chance he would have died in a hail of gunfire, and probably gotten a lot of innocent bystanders killed as well, and a certainty that if he had survived, he would have gone to jail for the rest of his life. I don't know what the solution is to the problems my country is facing right now, but I know for a fact that what you're suggesting is not the solution.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    There’s a chance he would have died in a hail of gunfire,

    He did die in a hail of gunfire.

    and probably gotten a lot of innocent bystanders killed as well,

    Do you support complete disarmament of the police and military? Or is it only with non-state actors that this concern about missed shots outweighs everything else?

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    The solution is working class organizing, with well-trained and disciplined people's millitias. Pacifism gets people killed, as does adventurism. The only way out of the death spiral is revolution.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I'm suggesting that if it were me, and I was gonna go down either way, I'd rather die knowing that I helped rid the world of at least one of those rat bastards.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I see we've got a badass on our hands.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    No? I am under no illusions that I can stop the fascists from killing me if they want to. If five armed men kick down my door, I'm not stopping them. But I might be able to take one of them down, if I get lucky. That is, you know, how guns work. It doesn't take badassery to pull a trigger.

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