▲ 627 ▼ Android won't kill sideloading after all, but new verification rules will make it harder (www.techspot.com) submitted 9 months ago by Gsus4@mander.xyz to c/technology@lemmy.world 97 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] Feyd@programming.dev 190 points 9 months ago (25 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source hideshow 25 child comments replies: [–] XLE@piefed.social 60 points 9 months ago (2 children) They'll be able to stop a group of less technically savvy people, who currently are sideloading, from using their phones the way they choose. Apparently that's good enough for Google. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* I don't know, it's possible that the number of people already interested in sideloading and savvy enough to do it, but not savvy enough to get over this new hurdle, may be a very small number. I mean there are already some roadblocks to sideloading and scary system messages about safety and security risks. permalink fedilink source parent [–] CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago I bet you less than 1% of users are even aware and of that less than .1% can't figure out what they need. permalink fedilink source parent [–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 26 points 9 months ago (21 children) They already don't let you use Google pay if you don't give them control of your phone. This is just tightening the noose a little bit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 25 points 9 months ago Push 3 degrees harder, relent 2 when there's resistance. Meaning, 3 steps ahead for them if there's no resistance. 1 step ahead if there is. Wait some time, repeat. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Feyd@programming.dev 36 points 9 months ago (11 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 9 months ago* People shouldn't use google pay in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 6 points 9 months ago (9 children) Would use something else if I had the choice permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 10 points 9 months ago (8 children) Don't you have a physical card? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago (3 children) I share a card with a family member. They have the physical one as it belongs to them, I use it on my phone permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) You can't just get an extra card for the account? My bank does offer this, and it's how my parents have always shared their account. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child) Sadly, I can’t. It’s not a legally shared account, and part of a specific legislation in my country (France). Basically, it’s tied to an account that can be used exclusively to purchase food at half the price during work days When it’s more convenient (ex: I’m already outside), I buy food for my family using their card and bring it back to them on my way home It’s unfortunately one of the things that make me stay on stock iOS rather than Graphene, as I prefer stock iOS to stock Android in terms of looks, comfort, and privacy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago Ah damn, well that sucks. I understand, however unfortunate it might be, some people do have actual reasons to stick with vendor-specific bullshit. permalink fedilink source parent [–] idefix@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago (3 children) Less convenient and less secure. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 6 points 9 months ago We live in a fucking clown country the fact that the same company that makes the phones decides who can use tap to pay. Its like if visa was the only company that printed plastic cards. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Virtvirt588@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago I mean you are right; however, the point about security can go both ways. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 1 point 9 months ago Not worried about security, it’s more that I can’t have two of the same card at the same time permalink fedilink source parent [–] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (5 children) That is more the fault/worry of the financial sector and not G. The fact that they gave up this amount of leeway is shocking. Their risk tolerance is very low and giving G the ability to manage virtual cards and allow payments with them is huge in itself. Even Privacy, which does part of the same thing/idea, still only works for some cards, doesn't work at all for credit cards (last time I checked), and has been in the sector for a similar amount of time. G had to lock down Pay to appease the financial sector's risk management. Anything else was DOA. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Zak@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago (4 children) I wonder what an alternate history where Google chose not to become evil would look like. What if they had looked at Microsoft's Palladium proposal and thought, as pretty much everyone outside institutional IT departments did that locked devices with remote attestation was a nightmare scenario best forgotten, refused to build it, and made an effort to prevent anyone else from doing so on top of Android? Safetynet didn't appear until 5-6 years after Android launched to the public. What if it never did? Android already had enough momentum by that point I don't think the financial sector could refuse to be on it no matter what risk management said. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (3 children) Well, I kind of know what happened in that scenario... because it did. Until Pay, there was Wallet. The original Wallet, not the current one. Wallet had a physical and virtual prepaid debit card, that you would load up and manage in the app. I used it a few times (new tech woo), and distinctively remember ordering at a McDonald's, the clerk announced the cost, I held my Nexus 7 to the new nfc pad, they started to say 'uhh no you have to-' and then a success beep, and their jaw dropped. They thought it was nuts, I told them in a few years 'this will be everywhere'. So before Pay, there was Wallet, and it's own little sandbox of testing if anyone would use this. A couple years later the Wallet card discontinued, and Pay took its place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Zak@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago A different Wallet/Pay implementation is a possible outcome, but I'm thinking of a bigger picture where Android phones are more like PCs: no non-unlockable bootloaders, no remote attestation anywhere, barriers to root detection at the OS level, third-party ROMs encouraged. The early days of Android were like that. I wonder if things had developed along that path, would we have a paradise for power users? A security nightmare for mainstream users? Both? Neither? permalink fedilink source parent [–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Until Pay, there was Wallet. The original Wallet, not the current one. Classic Google. I remember wallet only working consistently at McDonald's. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] MalReynolds@slrpnk.net 9 points 9 months ago (1 child) Credit card in your phone case, use your banks' website, 95+% of people right there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago Most banks don’t allow payment through their apps anymore This also doesn’t work for shared cards under one person's name, which is my main use for this permalink fedilink source parent
[–] XLE@piefed.social 60 points 9 months ago (2 children) They'll be able to stop a group of less technically savvy people, who currently are sideloading, from using their phones the way they choose. Apparently that's good enough for Google. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* I don't know, it's possible that the number of people already interested in sideloading and savvy enough to do it, but not savvy enough to get over this new hurdle, may be a very small number. I mean there are already some roadblocks to sideloading and scary system messages about safety and security risks. permalink fedilink source parent [–] CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago I bet you less than 1% of users are even aware and of that less than .1% can't figure out what they need. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago* I don't know, it's possible that the number of people already interested in sideloading and savvy enough to do it, but not savvy enough to get over this new hurdle, may be a very small number. I mean there are already some roadblocks to sideloading and scary system messages about safety and security risks. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago I bet you less than 1% of users are even aware and of that less than .1% can't figure out what they need. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 26 points 9 months ago (21 children) They already don't let you use Google pay if you don't give them control of your phone. This is just tightening the noose a little bit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 25 points 9 months ago Push 3 degrees harder, relent 2 when there's resistance. Meaning, 3 steps ahead for them if there's no resistance. 1 step ahead if there is. Wait some time, repeat. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Feyd@programming.dev 36 points 9 months ago (11 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 9 months ago* People shouldn't use google pay in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 6 points 9 months ago (9 children) Would use something else if I had the choice permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 10 points 9 months ago (8 children) Don't you have a physical card? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago (3 children) I share a card with a family member. They have the physical one as it belongs to them, I use it on my phone permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) You can't just get an extra card for the account? My bank does offer this, and it's how my parents have always shared their account. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child) Sadly, I can’t. It’s not a legally shared account, and part of a specific legislation in my country (France). Basically, it’s tied to an account that can be used exclusively to purchase food at half the price during work days When it’s more convenient (ex: I’m already outside), I buy food for my family using their card and bring it back to them on my way home It’s unfortunately one of the things that make me stay on stock iOS rather than Graphene, as I prefer stock iOS to stock Android in terms of looks, comfort, and privacy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago Ah damn, well that sucks. I understand, however unfortunate it might be, some people do have actual reasons to stick with vendor-specific bullshit. permalink fedilink source parent [–] idefix@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago (3 children) Less convenient and less secure. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 6 points 9 months ago We live in a fucking clown country the fact that the same company that makes the phones decides who can use tap to pay. Its like if visa was the only company that printed plastic cards. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Virtvirt588@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago I mean you are right; however, the point about security can go both ways. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 1 point 9 months ago Not worried about security, it’s more that I can’t have two of the same card at the same time permalink fedilink source parent [–] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (5 children) That is more the fault/worry of the financial sector and not G. The fact that they gave up this amount of leeway is shocking. Their risk tolerance is very low and giving G the ability to manage virtual cards and allow payments with them is huge in itself. Even Privacy, which does part of the same thing/idea, still only works for some cards, doesn't work at all for credit cards (last time I checked), and has been in the sector for a similar amount of time. G had to lock down Pay to appease the financial sector's risk management. Anything else was DOA. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Zak@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago (4 children) I wonder what an alternate history where Google chose not to become evil would look like. What if they had looked at Microsoft's Palladium proposal and thought, as pretty much everyone outside institutional IT departments did that locked devices with remote attestation was a nightmare scenario best forgotten, refused to build it, and made an effort to prevent anyone else from doing so on top of Android? Safetynet didn't appear until 5-6 years after Android launched to the public. What if it never did? Android already had enough momentum by that point I don't think the financial sector could refuse to be on it no matter what risk management said. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (3 children) Well, I kind of know what happened in that scenario... because it did. Until Pay, there was Wallet. The original Wallet, not the current one. Wallet had a physical and virtual prepaid debit card, that you would load up and manage in the app. I used it a few times (new tech woo), and distinctively remember ordering at a McDonald's, the clerk announced the cost, I held my Nexus 7 to the new nfc pad, they started to say 'uhh no you have to-' and then a success beep, and their jaw dropped. They thought it was nuts, I told them in a few years 'this will be everywhere'. So before Pay, there was Wallet, and it's own little sandbox of testing if anyone would use this. A couple years later the Wallet card discontinued, and Pay took its place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Zak@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago A different Wallet/Pay implementation is a possible outcome, but I'm thinking of a bigger picture where Android phones are more like PCs: no non-unlockable bootloaders, no remote attestation anywhere, barriers to root detection at the OS level, third-party ROMs encouraged. The early days of Android were like that. I wonder if things had developed along that path, would we have a paradise for power users? A security nightmare for mainstream users? Both? Neither? permalink fedilink source parent [–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Until Pay, there was Wallet. The original Wallet, not the current one. Classic Google. I remember wallet only working consistently at McDonald's. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] MalReynolds@slrpnk.net 9 points 9 months ago (1 child) Credit card in your phone case, use your banks' website, 95+% of people right there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago Most banks don’t allow payment through their apps anymore This also doesn’t work for shared cards under one person's name, which is my main use for this permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 25 points 9 months ago Push 3 degrees harder, relent 2 when there's resistance. Meaning, 3 steps ahead for them if there's no resistance. 1 step ahead if there is. Wait some time, repeat. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Feyd@programming.dev 36 points 9 months ago (11 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 9 months ago* People shouldn't use google pay in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 6 points 9 months ago (9 children) Would use something else if I had the choice permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 10 points 9 months ago (8 children) Don't you have a physical card? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago (3 children) I share a card with a family member. They have the physical one as it belongs to them, I use it on my phone permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) You can't just get an extra card for the account? My bank does offer this, and it's how my parents have always shared their account. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child) Sadly, I can’t. It’s not a legally shared account, and part of a specific legislation in my country (France). Basically, it’s tied to an account that can be used exclusively to purchase food at half the price during work days When it’s more convenient (ex: I’m already outside), I buy food for my family using their card and bring it back to them on my way home It’s unfortunately one of the things that make me stay on stock iOS rather than Graphene, as I prefer stock iOS to stock Android in terms of looks, comfort, and privacy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago Ah damn, well that sucks. I understand, however unfortunate it might be, some people do have actual reasons to stick with vendor-specific bullshit. permalink fedilink source parent [–] idefix@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago (3 children) Less convenient and less secure. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 6 points 9 months ago We live in a fucking clown country the fact that the same company that makes the phones decides who can use tap to pay. Its like if visa was the only company that printed plastic cards. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Virtvirt588@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago I mean you are right; however, the point about security can go both ways. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 1 point 9 months ago Not worried about security, it’s more that I can’t have two of the same card at the same time permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 9 months ago* People shouldn't use google pay in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 6 points 9 months ago (9 children) Would use something else if I had the choice permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 10 points 9 months ago (8 children) Don't you have a physical card? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago (3 children) I share a card with a family member. They have the physical one as it belongs to them, I use it on my phone permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) You can't just get an extra card for the account? My bank does offer this, and it's how my parents have always shared their account. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child) Sadly, I can’t. It’s not a legally shared account, and part of a specific legislation in my country (France). Basically, it’s tied to an account that can be used exclusively to purchase food at half the price during work days When it’s more convenient (ex: I’m already outside), I buy food for my family using their card and bring it back to them on my way home It’s unfortunately one of the things that make me stay on stock iOS rather than Graphene, as I prefer stock iOS to stock Android in terms of looks, comfort, and privacy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago Ah damn, well that sucks. I understand, however unfortunate it might be, some people do have actual reasons to stick with vendor-specific bullshit. permalink fedilink source parent [–] idefix@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago (3 children) Less convenient and less secure. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 6 points 9 months ago We live in a fucking clown country the fact that the same company that makes the phones decides who can use tap to pay. Its like if visa was the only company that printed plastic cards. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Virtvirt588@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago I mean you are right; however, the point about security can go both ways. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 1 point 9 months ago Not worried about security, it’s more that I can’t have two of the same card at the same time permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 10 points 9 months ago (8 children) Don't you have a physical card? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago (3 children) I share a card with a family member. They have the physical one as it belongs to them, I use it on my phone permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) You can't just get an extra card for the account? My bank does offer this, and it's how my parents have always shared their account. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child) Sadly, I can’t. It’s not a legally shared account, and part of a specific legislation in my country (France). Basically, it’s tied to an account that can be used exclusively to purchase food at half the price during work days When it’s more convenient (ex: I’m already outside), I buy food for my family using their card and bring it back to them on my way home It’s unfortunately one of the things that make me stay on stock iOS rather than Graphene, as I prefer stock iOS to stock Android in terms of looks, comfort, and privacy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago Ah damn, well that sucks. I understand, however unfortunate it might be, some people do have actual reasons to stick with vendor-specific bullshit. permalink fedilink source parent [–] idefix@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago (3 children) Less convenient and less secure. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 6 points 9 months ago We live in a fucking clown country the fact that the same company that makes the phones decides who can use tap to pay. Its like if visa was the only company that printed plastic cards. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Virtvirt588@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago I mean you are right; however, the point about security can go both ways. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 1 point 9 months ago Not worried about security, it’s more that I can’t have two of the same card at the same time permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago (3 children) I share a card with a family member. They have the physical one as it belongs to them, I use it on my phone permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) You can't just get an extra card for the account? My bank does offer this, and it's how my parents have always shared their account. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child) Sadly, I can’t. It’s not a legally shared account, and part of a specific legislation in my country (France). Basically, it’s tied to an account that can be used exclusively to purchase food at half the price during work days When it’s more convenient (ex: I’m already outside), I buy food for my family using their card and bring it back to them on my way home It’s unfortunately one of the things that make me stay on stock iOS rather than Graphene, as I prefer stock iOS to stock Android in terms of looks, comfort, and privacy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago Ah damn, well that sucks. I understand, however unfortunate it might be, some people do have actual reasons to stick with vendor-specific bullshit. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) You can't just get an extra card for the account? My bank does offer this, and it's how my parents have always shared their account. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child) Sadly, I can’t. It’s not a legally shared account, and part of a specific legislation in my country (France). Basically, it’s tied to an account that can be used exclusively to purchase food at half the price during work days When it’s more convenient (ex: I’m already outside), I buy food for my family using their card and bring it back to them on my way home It’s unfortunately one of the things that make me stay on stock iOS rather than Graphene, as I prefer stock iOS to stock Android in terms of looks, comfort, and privacy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago Ah damn, well that sucks. I understand, however unfortunate it might be, some people do have actual reasons to stick with vendor-specific bullshit. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child) Sadly, I can’t. It’s not a legally shared account, and part of a specific legislation in my country (France). Basically, it’s tied to an account that can be used exclusively to purchase food at half the price during work days When it’s more convenient (ex: I’m already outside), I buy food for my family using their card and bring it back to them on my way home It’s unfortunately one of the things that make me stay on stock iOS rather than Graphene, as I prefer stock iOS to stock Android in terms of looks, comfort, and privacy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago Ah damn, well that sucks. I understand, however unfortunate it might be, some people do have actual reasons to stick with vendor-specific bullshit. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Ghoelian@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago Ah damn, well that sucks. I understand, however unfortunate it might be, some people do have actual reasons to stick with vendor-specific bullshit. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] idefix@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago (3 children) Less convenient and less secure. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 6 points 9 months ago We live in a fucking clown country the fact that the same company that makes the phones decides who can use tap to pay. Its like if visa was the only company that printed plastic cards. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Virtvirt588@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago I mean you are right; however, the point about security can go both ways. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 1 point 9 months ago Not worried about security, it’s more that I can’t have two of the same card at the same time permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 6 points 9 months ago We live in a fucking clown country the fact that the same company that makes the phones decides who can use tap to pay. Its like if visa was the only company that printed plastic cards. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Virtvirt588@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago I mean you are right; however, the point about security can go both ways. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 1 point 9 months ago Not worried about security, it’s more that I can’t have two of the same card at the same time permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (5 children) That is more the fault/worry of the financial sector and not G. The fact that they gave up this amount of leeway is shocking. Their risk tolerance is very low and giving G the ability to manage virtual cards and allow payments with them is huge in itself. Even Privacy, which does part of the same thing/idea, still only works for some cards, doesn't work at all for credit cards (last time I checked), and has been in the sector for a similar amount of time. G had to lock down Pay to appease the financial sector's risk management. Anything else was DOA. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Zak@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago (4 children) I wonder what an alternate history where Google chose not to become evil would look like. What if they had looked at Microsoft's Palladium proposal and thought, as pretty much everyone outside institutional IT departments did that locked devices with remote attestation was a nightmare scenario best forgotten, refused to build it, and made an effort to prevent anyone else from doing so on top of Android? Safetynet didn't appear until 5-6 years after Android launched to the public. What if it never did? Android already had enough momentum by that point I don't think the financial sector could refuse to be on it no matter what risk management said. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (3 children) Well, I kind of know what happened in that scenario... because it did. Until Pay, there was Wallet. The original Wallet, not the current one. Wallet had a physical and virtual prepaid debit card, that you would load up and manage in the app. I used it a few times (new tech woo), and distinctively remember ordering at a McDonald's, the clerk announced the cost, I held my Nexus 7 to the new nfc pad, they started to say 'uhh no you have to-' and then a success beep, and their jaw dropped. They thought it was nuts, I told them in a few years 'this will be everywhere'. So before Pay, there was Wallet, and it's own little sandbox of testing if anyone would use this. A couple years later the Wallet card discontinued, and Pay took its place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Zak@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago A different Wallet/Pay implementation is a possible outcome, but I'm thinking of a bigger picture where Android phones are more like PCs: no non-unlockable bootloaders, no remote attestation anywhere, barriers to root detection at the OS level, third-party ROMs encouraged. The early days of Android were like that. I wonder if things had developed along that path, would we have a paradise for power users? A security nightmare for mainstream users? Both? Neither? permalink fedilink source parent [–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Until Pay, there was Wallet. The original Wallet, not the current one. Classic Google. I remember wallet only working consistently at McDonald's. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Zak@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago (4 children) I wonder what an alternate history where Google chose not to become evil would look like. What if they had looked at Microsoft's Palladium proposal and thought, as pretty much everyone outside institutional IT departments did that locked devices with remote attestation was a nightmare scenario best forgotten, refused to build it, and made an effort to prevent anyone else from doing so on top of Android? Safetynet didn't appear until 5-6 years after Android launched to the public. What if it never did? Android already had enough momentum by that point I don't think the financial sector could refuse to be on it no matter what risk management said. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (3 children) Well, I kind of know what happened in that scenario... because it did. Until Pay, there was Wallet. The original Wallet, not the current one. Wallet had a physical and virtual prepaid debit card, that you would load up and manage in the app. I used it a few times (new tech woo), and distinctively remember ordering at a McDonald's, the clerk announced the cost, I held my Nexus 7 to the new nfc pad, they started to say 'uhh no you have to-' and then a success beep, and their jaw dropped. They thought it was nuts, I told them in a few years 'this will be everywhere'. So before Pay, there was Wallet, and it's own little sandbox of testing if anyone would use this. A couple years later the Wallet card discontinued, and Pay took its place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Zak@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago A different Wallet/Pay implementation is a possible outcome, but I'm thinking of a bigger picture where Android phones are more like PCs: no non-unlockable bootloaders, no remote attestation anywhere, barriers to root detection at the OS level, third-party ROMs encouraged. The early days of Android were like that. I wonder if things had developed along that path, would we have a paradise for power users? A security nightmare for mainstream users? Both? Neither? permalink fedilink source parent [–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Until Pay, there was Wallet. The original Wallet, not the current one. Classic Google. I remember wallet only working consistently at McDonald's. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 10 points 9 months ago (3 children) Well, I kind of know what happened in that scenario... because it did. Until Pay, there was Wallet. The original Wallet, not the current one. Wallet had a physical and virtual prepaid debit card, that you would load up and manage in the app. I used it a few times (new tech woo), and distinctively remember ordering at a McDonald's, the clerk announced the cost, I held my Nexus 7 to the new nfc pad, they started to say 'uhh no you have to-' and then a success beep, and their jaw dropped. They thought it was nuts, I told them in a few years 'this will be everywhere'. So before Pay, there was Wallet, and it's own little sandbox of testing if anyone would use this. A couple years later the Wallet card discontinued, and Pay took its place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Zak@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago A different Wallet/Pay implementation is a possible outcome, but I'm thinking of a bigger picture where Android phones are more like PCs: no non-unlockable bootloaders, no remote attestation anywhere, barriers to root detection at the OS level, third-party ROMs encouraged. The early days of Android were like that. I wonder if things had developed along that path, would we have a paradise for power users? A security nightmare for mainstream users? Both? Neither? permalink fedilink source parent [–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Until Pay, there was Wallet. The original Wallet, not the current one. Classic Google. I remember wallet only working consistently at McDonald's. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Zak@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago A different Wallet/Pay implementation is a possible outcome, but I'm thinking of a bigger picture where Android phones are more like PCs: no non-unlockable bootloaders, no remote attestation anywhere, barriers to root detection at the OS level, third-party ROMs encouraged. The early days of Android were like that. I wonder if things had developed along that path, would we have a paradise for power users? A security nightmare for mainstream users? Both? Neither? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Until Pay, there was Wallet. The original Wallet, not the current one. Classic Google. I remember wallet only working consistently at McDonald's. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] MalReynolds@slrpnk.net 9 points 9 months ago (1 child) Credit card in your phone case, use your banks' website, 95+% of people right there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago Most banks don’t allow payment through their apps anymore This also doesn’t work for shared cards under one person's name, which is my main use for this permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Electricd@lemmybefree.net 2 points 9 months ago Most banks don’t allow payment through their apps anymore This also doesn’t work for shared cards under one person's name, which is my main use for this permalink fedilink source parent