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"Just once I'd like these people to come in and engage with us" - 'Hello' - "Fuck off" (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
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[–] [S] 1 point 9 months ago (10 children)

What about the rapists

Read some of it, but like most anarchist readings, it's too unrealistic. When people ask 'what about the rapists?' They don't mean sexual transgressions, they mean powerful people with powerful friends not caring for an anarchist society, or rules, and instead having their way with anyone they want through force or coercion. The book seems to larp on with the typical naive approach of 'Oh, in our society, we'd change the system so no one actually thinks about rape or crime!'

That's impossible so long as people remember what the previous system was like.

That's not even mentioning that some people are more naturally inclined towards violence, and by natural, I mean biologically. This isn't mentioned at all in the text.

Unless I read it wrong, if so, can you direct me to what parts actually go on about how to punish and prevent criminals without forming a state apparatus? Group therapy and magically waving a wand of 'nuh the system is different' isn't going to stop criminals.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (9 children)

    It's not that different in anarchy, it just doesn't work the way you are accustomed to.

    When I mention a 'trial' it doesn't refer to someone being a judge - judges are individuals who are supposed to be impartial, and that is impossible.

    There is no requirement for how the equivalent of a trial would proceed, but people would discuss it in an open forum, figure out evidence, ask questions, and build a consensus on both the perpetrator and actions to take.

    Any action taken, of course, is open to consequences. If it turns out that the people who formed an opinion on guilt and punishment were prejudice against the accused, then they would have to face that too.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 9 months ago (8 children)

    There is no requirement for how the equivalent of a trial would proceed, but people would discuss it in an open forum, figure out evidence, ask questions, and build a consensus on both the perpetrator and actions to take.

    This just sounds like every trial will be like DSA conventions where they vote on everything and then vote on having votes and then argue about the voting.

    Apropos that, what about the violent groups I suggested?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (7 children)

    The groups of rapists? Do you intend to prosecute them as a group?

    Edit: and modern systems are incapable of preventing rape, or any crime. The threat of prison time does not prevent crime. Crime still happens. Crimes are not identical to one another.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 9 months ago (6 children)

    no, i mean. In this anarchist society, how will it defend itself from a group of violent thugs who don't care for anarchism and only want to enact their will onto others?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (5 children)

    I already went over that - anarchists aren't pacifists.

    Someone will see them, and inform others, and they will self organize into a temporary militia.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 9 months ago (4 children)

    but doesn't that make a group hiearchy or is everyone in this society packing?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    A large number of anarchists are armed, yes.

    Two things can be true like everything in life.

    Anarchists/radical leftists want a society where weapons are unnecessary. Many are armed until that is possible precisely because the existing establishments are prone to violence.

    Again, pre-soviet Ukraine is an excellent example of this.

    Some of us choose not to be. But that isn't to say we won't take up arms, or provide other means of defending ourselves.

    In an anarchist society we would rather work to end the conditions that encourage violence - usually that is inequality. Many people with disabilities can still participate, with no expectations on how they do. Some simply cannot, so we would provide support as possible. Something else to remember is that while people can certainly choose to specialize in a role within the community, polymaths are exceptionally valuable.

    We harbor no illusions that the society is easy to obtain. But that can't be a surprise giving wars have been fought over taxes.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Hey, how would an anarchist society look like if everyone was immortal?

    This is a wild question i know. But if people couldn't age, didn't die, and didn't need to eat, would they naturally become anarchist?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago*

    If people didn't die, and didn't need to eat, it sounds to me like they have all the resources they need to survive.

    That would be no different than an anarchist society where people did die and needed to eat, as the anarchist makes sure needs are met.

    So it's one less burden on the society. Authorities would still be unnecessary. Everyone would only be entitled to what they can use, just like in a mortal society.

    One of my favorite ideas of anarchy is their view of ownership. Property is essentially meaningless. Instead you have possession. When you occupy a house, it is under your possession - for your needs. There is no weekend cabin, there is no beach front vacation home. There is no landlord.

    I don't know that it would form anything particular, just because of immortality.

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