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[–] -3 points 10 months ago (25 children)

It's very hard to tell that you're listening. Maybe that's something else you can work on, I'd be happy to provide feedback so you can help people feel heard and included.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (24 children)

    I don't really like the condescension in your tone, it leads me to believe your advice wouldn't be very helpful in making people feel heard.

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  • [–] -4 points 10 months ago (23 children)

    Bro, if we're talking about convenience tone, you've come off like that from the start with people. I don't think you meant it, but you sounded very "holier and more socially enlightened than thou", especially when you doubled down on explaining things rather than like, trying to understand what they were saying.

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago (22 children)

    I think it's fair to say that explaining my views more thoroughly when it's clear that they've been misunderstood is important. Further, the original commenter misunderstood the post, thinking it accelerationist, which I tried to explain why it isn't. None of that was me being condescending.

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  • [–] -2 points 10 months ago (21 children)

    You don't get to tell others how they feel about things, that's very invalidating.

    If you weren't intending on being condescending but to others you seem condescending, that's a problem to fix on your end, right?

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (20 children)

    Based on voting totals though, it seems most people understood me. I'm not telling anyone how to feel, and for the minority that misunderstood me, further elaboration helps clear it up. I'm not sure what you're trying to add to that.

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  • [–] -2 points 10 months ago (19 children)

    I'm trying to get you to understand that you've been coming off like a dick and trying to help you not come off like a dick, because I believe in what you're trying to do, and coming off as a dick is hurting the cause of things we both want in this world.

    Telling people that you aren't coming off as a dick (i.e. condescending) is saying their feelings aren't valid and is being a dick. So yeah, you were telling people how to feel. "Well I wasn't trying to be a dick so you shouldn't feel like I was being a dick" isn't a great for you, me, or our mutual cause.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (18 children)

    I appreciate your intent, but I don't see the problem you're seeing. I'm not being condescendng by saying so, I just fundamentally don't see the problems with what I'm saying from an optics perspective that you claim to see.

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  • [–] -2 points 10 months ago (17 children)

    That's why I'm pretty sure you have been more invested in talking than listening, because I've been trying to get you to see the problem for days now my man.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (16 children)

    I understand, but the fact that I don't see it doesn't mean that I haven't been listening.

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  • [–] -3 points 10 months ago (15 children)

    You are terrible at showing that you've been listening.

    Look man your heart is in the right place but your approach is very academic and comes off as patronizing, it might be time to talk to people irl about noon political stuff, might help when talking to people outside of the usual socialist social circle.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (14 children)

    See, I do talk to people IRL (both about politics and non-political things) and you're being patronizing by insinuating that I don't. This is why I don't really see why you'd be helpful for me.

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago (13 children)

    I was genuinely saying that not to be an insult, you just come off as the guy who just talks down to people using jargon, and figured talking to people outside of where that might be more of a norm would help. I apologize.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (12 children)

    Apology accepted. I understand that that's what you percieve about me, but that just generally isn't a common thing for when people talk to me. I don't get that frequently, and I talk to a lot of people, online and offline. That's why I don't see it as a broader issue, but a smaller and particular one, which is why I focused on further explaining myself.

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago (11 children)

    I think that even if you're talking to a lot of people, given our interaction, it's a blind spot for you. People may just give up and not talk to you when you are being condescending or just not day anything because they want to be polite. It's a little presumptuous to say "well most of the time it isn't a problem but since it's only come up once or twice I don't have to respect these people to acknowledge what they are saying and can just double down on educating them."

    Maybe then people won't assume you're being low-key racist and call you out on it like I did.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (10 children)

    I can acknowledge that you personally feel this way, but I don't see it as a broader phenomenon because I don't run into this problem. I was never being racist either.

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  • [–] -1 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    If you don't get how you came off as racist then you clearly didn't care to listen to what I said earlier.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    I listened, I just don't agree.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Wow, you sound like someone refusing to apologize for a rape joke right now.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    I never made anything close to a joke about SA or any racist statements, though, and you sound like someone trying to discredit a point by wielding this accusation like a club just because I don't agree with you.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    I didn't say that you said anything about rape. Damn you really don't care about what other people say do you... If you cared you'd actually read stuff and try to understand it.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    You compared me to someone refusing to apologize for a joke about SA, which I said I never made anything close to that. I didn't say you said I made one. I really don't think I should listen to what you have to say if you don't actually care to read and understand what I say.

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  • [+] -2 points 9 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

    Like, you come on in here saying that maybe Americans should lead a communist revolution, because they all think the same,

    Never once said this.

    even though that’s like, a lot of different cultures and everything, and when someone points out that’s kinda racist, your response was to explain communism harder and say that it wasn’t racist because you decided it wasn’t.

    I never said that there weren't a lot of cultures, my point was that those oppressed by present conditions most readily grasp the necessity of resisting them.

    And I’ve tried multiple angles for days to see if you at any point would go “yeah that was a little fucked up of me” or even the minimum of “I could see how someone could see that”, and instead you humblebrag about how “no one else has had a problem with it with my many many friends”, and double down again.

    You completely invented a point I never made, accused me of racism for said point, and then tried to tell me to apologize for the point you invented. No, I am not apologizing for something I never said.

    So I’m pretty sure that wraps up this saga. I can’t get you to admit you did anything wrong because you think you’re perfect

    Nope, I know I'm not perfect. I do know that one person inventing a point doesn't mean I need to apologize for said invented point.

    Knowing your type, you’ll probably insist of having the last word anyway, try to pull off that W in the Internet debate box, but I’m not above that either and maybe you’ll surprise me and end this charade.

    I'm not going to stand for libel, you're perfectly capable of admitting that you invented a point I never made. Asking me to apologize for a point you invented is absurd.

    We aren't coming to a deeper understanding together, you're insistent that if I don't agree with you that I'm in the wrong. I understand that people can misunderstand or misinterpret my point, and I clarified that I think it's best to further explain points that are misinterpreted. You took deep offense to that and proceeded to have this back and forth for days with nothing constructive coming from it.

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  • [+] -1 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Be bigger than that. You don't need to make up what I said, you're more than capable of answering points I made directly.

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  • [+] -1 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I don't make assumptions based on race, though, and your insistence that I do is plain libel. You completely misunderstood my point, and no matter how much I further elaborate on it, you try to flip it into being my problem when you invented a strawman to argue against.

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  • [+] -1 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    I already explained how you made assumptions based on race. You did it twice. You said that you think native Americans would be more in favor of socialist ideologies. That’s making an assumption based on race, cut and dry, plain and simple, period, end of sentence.

    I never made that argument, nor was my argument based on ethnicity. I said oppressed people, colonized people, are more willing to resist the system that oppresses them. There's nothing biological or race-based about that, except in that the US Empire is a settler-colony on stolen land. To deny that is to make a racist statement, akin to saying the US doesn't have racist systems.

    It’s the added level of ignorance to lump in all native Americans as one collective when they are multiple different cultures.

    I never once did this, again, more of you making up strawmen to fight. All of the various first nations are currently colonized by the US Empire, please speak with anyone from any of these cultures.

    You really didn’t read anything, did you? Just waiting to get that last word on so you feel like you’re right.

    I understood perfectly, you keep digging deeper. It's not about me feeling right, it's about libel.

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