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But birds in a giant blender is a more appealing headline (slrpnk.net)
submitted 10 months ago by to c/justpost@lemmy.world
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[–] 30 points 10 months ago (20 children)

Oh god, another time I see that cat killing birds statistics.

  1. Cats prefer to kill rodents and are more equipped to it. And the same study Loss et al estimates cat killing rodents to be 4 times more than birds.
  2. Rodents (e.g. rats) eats bird eggs. Same researcher fails to calculate how much...
  3. All studies (well, 1 study in Australia) that compared bird population with cats in rodent areas confirm that removal of cats hastened decrease of bird population 2 times.
  4. Loss at all is a metastudy. Some of the data sources on cat predation and other collisions are 70-100 years old. Some are more recent, but overall data quality on bird death is local, from small sample, and estimated. My favourite was a study on 10 cats in 3 villages estimated over a whole damn country.
  5. The graph seems to be missing all other non-collision sources of bird population death, e.g. rodents eating birds, pesticide related deaths, electrocutions form powerlines, etc. etc.
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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    There's no denying that outdoor cats kill birds but you're right that those numbers are inflated. Plus, the problem with looking back 70-100 years back isn't just methodology but it's the fact that stray and feral cats are much better maintained in the last few decades. It's a problem many counties actually bothered to tackle with high profile neutering campaigns and such. So, I bet the numbers are probably lower than collisions at this point.

    Context also matters a lot-- cats are, like us, an invasive species. The most evidence of it being a problem are in places where there were no major predators for birds (mostly thinking of islands like New Zealand). But that's less a matter of bird deaths so much as a matter of man made ecological changes leading to endangerment.

    It's also weird how much easier it should be to just not have clear glass skyscrapers murdering thousands of birds vs what, killing off cats? What even is the end game to that statistic, lol.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (15 children)

    This sounds like the type of denial one hears from. climate change deniers except with cats instead.

    Just say you have outdoor cats and refuse to accept anything that says it's bad.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    No need to be an asshole. There is a large cultural difference between the US and EU on this issue. Expert opinion is also divided, of low quality and influenced by local opinion.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago*

    Americans tend to think in moral absolutes about everything, and from their moral absolutism have an unwavering delusional confidence that they are 'correct' because of their feelings. It's why we are so backwards in so many ways.

    Birds good, cats bad. Full stop. If you don't agree you are evil and clearly support bird genocide!

    No other possibility is allowed in the discussion, like understanding that systems are complex and/or that not all cats are the same, or that the studies often quoted on these issues are flawed and problematic in many ways. And that the general solution to the problem... the control of the feral cat population, is one both 'sides' already agree on. Because there is no 'drama' in that. It's much more dramatic to scream at every cat owner they are a evil person if they allow their cat outside at any time ever.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    Given I see it the same as climate denial, I see no reason not to be an asshole to either type of a anti-science tomfoolery.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago*

    People are taking this really personally, the chart isn't even throwing shade at cats. It's saying look how small this is compared to something basically no one cares about in the US. Domestic and the resulting feral cats are a human created invasive species issue that way worse and more destructive than we give it credit for because we love cats.

    I'm tangentially involved enough in local spay/neuter programs and you can see these consequences locally wherever you live.

    Like I love cats, I have 4 indoor, no outdoor animals, but people are really trying to act like feral cat predation is no big deal. It is a huge deal, we just don't care, and if we don't care about a billion birds getting killed by cats, and a quarter billion by windows, why the hell would we care about the 7 that windmills killed in comparison.

    Wind turbines kill as many birds in the US as the feral cats in my COUNTY do.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    Ironically this comment is far far more like the attitude of climate change deniers than anything else that has been said in this thread.

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  • [–] -3 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Yep, there we go. Projection is the final stage of denial. Congrats you did it.

    People who vaccinate at the true menace! This is why I assume people are stupid. Few people are willing to critically examine their own behavior when called out on it.

    I'm being called and asshole in this thread and you don't see me denying that shit. I own it.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    This is why I assume people are stupid. Few people are willing to critically examine their own behavior when called out on it.

    If only you were self aware.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago* (1 child)

    why would you have to examine your own behavior if you are right and everyone else is stupid and wrong?

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Good thing I never said I am right. Hard to have an argument one people go for clever little zingers and strut about.

    Your acting like a pigeons playing chess and fucking blaming me for shooing you away and being upset you shit all over the board.

    Stupid bird. Hope a cat eats you.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (2 children)

    So what's your take on my comment here:

    https://old.lemmy.world/comment/21386013

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    One desd bird doesn't mean it only killed one. Also, the other comments that it's feral cats is spot on.

    One concern is well fed outdoor cats normalized people who have feral cats , especially the kinds they dump a bag of food every now and then and think they mean they aren't part of the problem.

    And in general, people should not allow their pets outside. We do it for cats but not other animals because people think their cats is never a nuisance; bird killer or otherwise.

    All the science says don't let your cat out. Pointing at one specific stat and ripping it apart and claiming victory is exactly how we allowed climate change to just slip away for over 60 years now.

    It's not a problem if I dump some motor oil into the ground because oil tankers leaker more! Either too contribute or too don't and I'm going to be a dick to anyone that contributes no matter how little.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    All the science says don’t let your cat out.

    Not really, no.

    Cat wellbeing doesn't say that. Cat depression rates in high enriched indoor environments neither. Keeping the cat indoors is like keeping the people forced to stay in home during Covid - it has negative wellbeing consequences.

    Pointing at one specific stat and ripping it apart and claiming victory is exactly how we allowed climate change to just slip away for over 60 years now.

    What the heck are you talking about? What stat? There are studies that show that the cats kill mostly rodents (Lowes et al.), and that average bird prey is old or sick. The biggest problem with bird population dropping is not invasive cat species, but invasive human species.

    Bird loss is a function of habitat shrinking, climat change, pesticides and pollution. Any fix must focus on that instead of a cheap scapegoat. Do you know how I can tell that? Because the birds are dropping world wide (over 66% of bird species are in decline), outside of outdoor cat heavy areas you seem to want to focus on.

    Plastic straws didn't cause the climate change.

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