Horses, a first-person narrative horror game, was banned from the Epic Games Store just hours before it was set to launch on December 2nd. Then, a day after launch, the Humble store (temporarily) banned it as well. The decision shocked the developers at Santa Ragione, makers of the critically respected Saturnalia, as these storefronts were the homes they’d found for their game two years before it was preemptively banned from Steam.

Valve and Epic say Horses violates their sexual content policies. Humble hasn’t yet said why it banned the game.

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[–] 14 points 11 months ago (36 children)

Terrible timing. There was just that payment processor panic with the porn games. Now you wanna have a kid talk to a naked man with a horse mask. I get its not sexual but read the room. It was clearly a bad idea even if it was meant to convey some profound message. Honestly I dont think that would have ever worked out. Its just whack.

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  • [+] 41 points 11 months ago (33 children)
  • [–] [S] 9 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    Valve has hundreds if not thousands of highly and expressly pornographic games on its platform, so I don't think this can be chalked up to the Collective Shout folks' spectre somehow looming over Valve. As another commenter pointed out, according to the devs' own timeline, Valve's rejection happened prior to the recent successful Collective Should payment-processor targeting.

    I suspect that EGS and Humble probably halted sale at the last minute due to the added press naming them as distributors prior to launch, often in articles that included Valve's response asserting that it contained questionable content related to minors, and them going, "hey what? Hold on a sec, we don't know anything about that."

    If you were about to sell a bunch of cars, and a major dealership announced they wouldn't sell them because their trunks were all full of cocaine, a couple days before launch, you'd probably delay your launch to double-check as well.

    Unfortunately, the developers' own initial press statements where they sort of feigned innocence ignorance (after they had already changed the scene presumed to be in question, meaning they at least had some idea that was likely the issue) probably didn't help their credibility in other platforms' eyes, as far as being business partners goes.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (30 children)

    Okay, cool. Do you think having a little girl talk to a naked horseman is something that would help sell the game? Or make it onto a marketplace anywhere? Thats why it was removed and they already tried to placate by makkng the girl an adult and that didnt work obviously. So whats your point here? Leave that content in the game? That doesnt solve the developers problem.

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  • [+] 21 points 11 months ago (23 children)
  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago* (22 children)

    Yeah all I am saying is this isn't surprising. It should have been expected. I doubt you will ever be able to put a child model in a game next to nude adukt models and not get your game pulled from mainstream marketplaces. Thats just the current reality we live in and is not surprising. I mysslf dont think its offensive in this context. But again this outcome is completely expected.

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  • [+] 16 points 11 months ago (21 children)
  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago* (19 children)

    Go to horses.wtf if you really want to know more. I myself dont think this is a hill worth dying on.

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  • [+] 4 points 11 months ago* (18 children)
  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (17 children)

    Yeah and what I am saying is this is stupid shit to do that for. Someone tried to make a "grotesque story experience" and they got too close for comfort for main stream distributors. You can still acquire the game, just not on these platforms. You can still play it in its intended state, just not on those platforms. So what you are arguing for really is for Steam and Epic to distribute this.

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  • [+] 3 points 11 months ago (16 children)
  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (15 children)

    Its their platform. In what world can you force people to sell shit they dont want to sell? You can literally go buy it and experience the art right now. But its not on Steam with achievements and friends seeing me play it so fuck it? Lmao what logic is this? Theres not much left to discuss here tbh. This seems pretty straightforward and your argument is incoherent at this point. They are getting loads of marketing from this

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    I’m with you until I got here. What world can you force people to sell shit they don’t want to sell? In a world with anti trust laws.

    I like steam, but arbitrary decisions like this is going to get them under fire by the FTC sooner rather than later.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    This all happened because they had a literal child riding one of the naked adults on a lead and then wanted to play dumb. I dont agree with Steam practically controlling the PC market, but this one is a case of the developers stepping on their own rake and then turning around and saying "look what they've done to me!" I don't know why this is such an unpopular opinion. But I digress. Because in actuality I would simply not buy the game, I don't actually care if it is available on Steam, I'm just saying having a kid ride a naked adults shoulders is very obviously not going to pass their content checks.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    And I would agree with you if that content were still in the game.

    If they are disallowed on Steam, with no recourse, and Steam’s market share is 75%, this is the letter and verse WHY we have antitrust laws. They are the textbook definition of a monopoly.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    If you burn someone like that, they aren't going to accept do overs. "Sorry for what you perceived as CSAM" doesn't work.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

    A monopoly giving zero recourse doesn’t work, either. It’s a shame, because I like steam for the most part.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    A federated game distribution platform would be cool. Something no one can own. I dont think that will happen in our capitalist world. But I also dont think this particular problem would be solved by that.

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  • [+] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Here: https://www.gog.com/en/game/horses play the game. There, thats a major marketplace right there and literally the best one.

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  • [+] 1 point 11 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

    What systemic problems? The systemic problem of distributors not distributing games with children interacting with naked adults? Thats not a fucken problem unless you're a libertarian. The porn game crusade is a huge problem. This is not that. I don't believe this is the game that will push through complete freedom of creation. I also dont believe our current public zeitgeist is ready to handle the complex questions that arise from content like this. I didnt even say I didnt like the game. I havent played it. I'm sure its as thought provoking as Solarium or SOMA. But acting like this is a moral panic overreach of sensorship is a little much when its still available on one of the biggest game marketplaces available AND you'll get the offline installer for it. Go play it. I just might after all this and see what the hubub is actually about.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    GOG's market share is around 0.5 to 1%. Steam's is above 75%. So by comparison, GOG is tiny.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Sounds like a business discussion was not had if they really are "serious abiut their product" like horses.wtf says they are. Thousands of games go on there each year and dont have this problem.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago*

    Isn't that part of the discussion? That Valve can just arbitrarily reject a game. Before the payment processors stepped in for example, which was also the time Valve "banned" Horses, Steam had games that had the four-letter r word in their description and Valve didn't care despite being contacted by Collective Shout. One could argue they're lying, but as someone who's worked with most major publishers, I can believe them, because Valve is almost impossible to reach. In my experience, and based on what I've been hearing, most of the time they simply don't reply to press requests. Instead they do these publicity stunts where Gabe Newell will occasionally reply to random people online, knowing the reply will be posted to social media, or he'll do an interview with a nobody on YouTube.

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  • [+] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Who is self censoring here? Horses.wtf states the game is available in an unchanged state elsewhere. Just not on Steam or Epic. They're big ass corpos. Dont know why this is shocking or why people want them to be forced to sell it. Valve was never your vanguard for self expression or art exploration.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    but can that content be removed without changing the game? they already changed her from a kid to a grown woman, because it fit the story and the message better, apparently. but would removing that entirely still work?

    idk, i haven't played or analysed the game. i'm guessing that it's there for a reason. but i do know that demanding content be changed because it makes us uncomfortable is not a good thing!

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  • [–] 16 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    I have played the game. There's far more pornographic games on Steam. All of the nudity is censored, there are no kids or even characters that could be mistaken for kids in the game, and it's obvious in its intent - there's nothing that I'd describe as even approaching titillating; the whole experience is clearly just intended to - and successfully so - make you feel uncomfortable and unsettled. The scene in question - the one that previously had the young girl - is particularly unsettling specifically because of how it normalizes everything else that's going on, and I agree with them that the scene works better with a grown woman than it would have with a kid. There's no reason for this to be banned on Steam.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah cause the content that made headlines was changed. So you won't see it by playing you had to read into why. Look, I'll get down on some Futa Femboy House. Lets go. But maybe lets not involve kids and nudity in the global community, thats a recipe for disaster. Either way, that will for sure get you delisted and you cant act surprised in this capitalist, bland-shit-to-widest-audience world. What just happened will happen to you. Maybe if they wanted it to be considered art, which I think might have gone better, present it aa that at a gallery or your own hosted site. Valve or any big corp is not going to fuck with that 100%. I'm just honestly surprised they're surprised and this is making such a big splash.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Whether they're surprised or not, going public with it was a good marketing ploy because I never would have known about the game if they hadn't, and I bought it. I'm sure many more of their sales can be attributed to the same.

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  • [–] 17 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    iirc the game was refused by steam before the payment processor thing, and even then, you don't scrap your whole project because of one moral panic. not only is it bowing down to pressure, it's also just a terrible idea financially

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