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[–] 34 points 11 months ago (14 children)

The following can all be true:

  • The Democrats are a right wing neoliberal party.
  • The Democrats are the most left-wing option that is realistically available to American voters.
  • The Democrats can be pushed further left if American progressives work to do so.
  • The Democrats - at the party level - will resist such a change, but that resistance can still be overcome.
  • In the long term, massive structural overhauls and the downfall of capitalism are the only things that will save America and the world
  • In the near term, voting consistly and enthusiastically for the least bad option can still protect vulnerable groups from harm and create changes that lay the groundwork for those structural overhauls.
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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago

    The funny thing about this is that if it were possible to reform the democratic party, it would only be through demanding change, and credibly threatening defection if those demands are not met. By setting conditions and giving those conditions teeth. What you're suggesting is just asking nicely for people to act directly contrary to their material interests and hoping for the best. It's complete nonsense.

    Also lol at "enthusiastically voting." Yes, it's very important that you not only bend the knee to your corporate masters completely unconditionally, but that you do so with a smile on your face. You can trust me, I'm a leftist just like you, see how I say all the language about needing the downfall of capitalism?

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  • [+] 33 points 11 months ago (11 children)
  • [+] -10 points 11 months ago (10 children)

    Then primary the bad actors and reform the Democrat party.

    This is your option. There is no other option than violent revolution and I can assure you from spending my entire life in this country that modern Americans don't have it in them.

    If conservatives can morph the Republican party into the traitorous entity it is now, then liberals can reform the Democrat party to move more to the left.

    History proves party reformation is possible, and inevitable.

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    Liberals will never move left cause they're pro-capitalism.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    It's not for liberals to move the democratic party left, it's for everybody that wants the democratic party to change to do so.

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  • [+] 6 points 11 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] -4 points 11 months ago

    Their base is whoever votes in the primaries.

    It took about 7 years for the Republican party to change from the Bush/Cheney era to full on fascism. The democratic party is not immune to a drastic change (hopefully towards the opposite end of the spectrum), but it won't happen overnight and people that want this change must get involved. Money allows to promote an agenda, helps with organizing a campaign, but ultimately it's the people who vote.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    I only used that word cause of the person I replied to. I personally don't view the Democrats as capable of moving left, at least not on the major stage. The only way to get a leftist party is to destroy the major parties through violence.

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  • [+] -6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (5 children)

    Then explain why the entire planet is capitalist and yet other countries have FAR more left leaning parties.

    The Democrat party can be moved left if liberal voters make it happen.

    EDIT: Yo downvoters, start a violent revolution or keep your fucking downvotes to yourself. Or, better yet, submit an idea, if you can, for what you think can be done. Because in reality, your options are start a violent revolution or reform the Democrat party. There are no viable 3rd parties in America and none are even trying to be viable. Use your fucking brains instead of your fingers to downvote. You are part of the problem.

    EDIT 2: Honestly, my bad guys. I didn't notice I was in .ml. The lack of common sense makes a lot more sense now.

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  • [+] 12 points 11 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] -2 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Not by voting.

    Lol.

    Can you provide examples of countries with viable left leaning parties that didn't get there by voting?

    You think working class organization is successful without voting in candidates that champion their cause?

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  • [+] -6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Crazy how some people have very strong opinions on politics but no basic understanding of how democracy works

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  • [+] 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] -3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    You want change: organize and vote. Lots of comments here that seem to view politics as a show, as if we were powerless against the events that unfold week after week. It's only a show if you don't care enough to participate.

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago

    I think we're showing mixed results on your third bullet. It did seem that way, for a while, as we pushed on social issues. And when it came time to get on with the economic issues, the core management team of the party rallied, and rather than adopt the left flank to win, steps right to hand control to Republicans.

    And it's happened more than once now, to obvious and clear effect: the goal of the Democratic party isn't to win elections, it's to keep the country idealogically aligned with a neoliberal ruling class. And if that means handing control of government to Republicans, they'll do so, then blame the left (even though it's them moving to the right losing elections).

    To the fourth bullet, no, it's not clear that within the machinations of the party infrastructure it can be overcome. Because if not now, when? Party leadership has never been weaker or more vulnerable nor the times more desperate. Democrats as a party poll worse than Trump, yet progressives can win elections with both the entire Republican and Democratic apparatus gunning to take them down. yet somehow we can't replace Schumer's or Jefferies.

    Skipping to the 6th point, again, that isn't actually borne out by the evidence. It's not something well know in advance and only as an artifact of history. What's been extremely clearly is that so far, voting has been wildly insufficient to make the kinds of structural changes necessary. Obama is the classic example of this. He runs on healthcare, holding wallstreet accountable, and ending the wars; he delivers corporate "access", bails out the banks, and continues the wars. The voters did their job and the system didn't work.

    So a relentless optimism that the system will just work as intended doesn't seem warranted, and it's clearly not going in a good direction.

    Until we recognize that the Democratic party, it at least it's current and historical structure is at the core of the problem with why we can't advance political change, its pretty clear that this decent into autocracy, fascism, and a degraded quality of life is inevitable. The Democratic party isn't just part of the problem: it's the core element of the problem.

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