Memes

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[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 11 months ago (8 children)

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[+] 4grams@awful.systems -13 points 11 months ago (7 children)

we don’t have capitalism. But fuck any ism, just find the broken shit and fix it. People think there’s one trick, one system, one thing that will fix shit. Nothing will but work, time, effort, good judgement. What worked yesterday, won’t work tomorrow, at least without updating it.

Yeah, capitalism is fucked. I don’t want to put in another fucking ism, I want to buckle the fuck down and fix the shit that’s wrong.

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[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

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[+] 4grams@awful.systems -14 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

It has a corrupt form of capitalism. It also has corrupt socialism.

So, do the good shit and I personally belive a socialist style system will result. It’s the work against the corruption that is the hard part.

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[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 11 months ago (1 child)

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[+] 4grams@awful.systems -6 points 11 months ago

I’m well aware. I guess good luck instituting socialism then. I bet you get far.

To not be a dick. Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. We have don’t have a coherent system, we have aspects of many, but the western ‘cult’ worships at the alter of capitalism. But we have a very corrupted version of it, that includes socialist, and authoritarian, and fascist tendencies. Things are far too entrenched to simply say, replace the system we have with this other one.

No system has ever been instituted to its definition, there is always unique challenges and differences and personalities. Spending time instituting a whole scale replacement, is time that will be wasted. Instead, we need a strategy of implementation through attrition. Forget the isms, just work on addressing the problems, and eventually we can build a better system.

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[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 11 points 11 months ago

It has a corrupt form of capitalism.

I AGREE! We must return to a more pure form of capitalism by repealing the Chimney Sweepers Act 1788! Boys younger than eight should be allowed to be apprentices! Master sweeps should be allowed to take them on without getting their parents' consent, a four year old young man is able to make his own decisions!

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[–] davel@lemmy.ml 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

we don’t have capitalism.

🤦 To say that is to say you don’t have even a Wikipedia-level understanding of capitalism.

People think there’s one trick, one system, one thing that will fix shit.

No, people don’t think that.

Nothing will but work, time, effort, good judgement.

Correct.

What worked yesterday, won’t work tomorrow, at least without updating it.

Correct.

I don’t want to put in another fucking ism, I want to buckle the fuck down and fix the shit that’s wrong.

People who don’t learn or develop theory can buckle down all they want, but they’re not going to get very far because they don’t understand anything.

It is a lot of work, time, and effort, and some of that is necessarily intellectual work, if you actually want to succeed in changing the world. Otherwise it’s like saying you want to be able fly without developing theories of physics, aerodynamics, and internal combustion engines.

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[–] 4grams@awful.systems -4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I’m not going to reply to any more stupidity in here. Go theorize all you want. I’ll just leave one comment.

Otherwise it’s like saying you want to be able fly without developing theories of physics, aerodynamics, and internal combustion engines.

Check a history book, that’s precisely how we started flying.

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[–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

The Wikipedia page for the Wright brothers suggests otherwise. Preceding theory informs practice, which in turn informs theory, ad infinitum. They wouldn’t have gotten off the ground without standing on the shoulders of giants’ previous theories, or without creating/updating theories from their experiments and then putting those theories to the test in practice.

Marx, Engels, and Lenin didn’t sit in a room and build castles in the sky. They (1) learned their predecessors’ theories, (2) deeply investigated the contemporary moment of the world, (3) updated preceding theories and developed new ones based on those investigations, (4) tested those theories in the real world, and so on in a dialectical manner.

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[–] 4grams@awful.systems -2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The Wright Brothers did not know everything about flying, physics, engines, etc. They knew enough to do it, and did. In the years since we have written millions more pages and tried so many more things that if I want to fly, I don’t need to reinvent the airplane. This is the superpower of humanity, we don’t have to reinvent every time.

We all know enough about capitalism, socialism, etc. to act. Instead we prefer to sit and wank longer about the best possible society; meaning all we can do is endlessly talk about the best possible society.

The only way to actually build one is to learn what’s needed and act. Who cares what label it has, who cares if the theory is sound or not. If it doesn’t work in practice, you iterate forward.

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[–] Digit@lemmy.wtf -2 points 11 months ago

People always forget, nuance exists.

Amen.

(to noticing and remembering nuance exists)

(ps, Good luck with that other conversational cascade here... recent experience taught, that one's not at all inclined to nuance, open minded conversation, or entertaining ideas (nuanced or otherwise), or anything other than unreasonably repeating dogma with fallacies galore.)

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[–] respectmahauthoritybrah@sh.itjust.works -3 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Lemmy politics i find a bit confusing and maybe i dont understand it very well but all forms of black and white communism /marxism-leninism always seemed to have lead to totalitarian states.. like correct me if wrong, its fair and completely normal to say that whatever the west amd especially countries like USA an UK are bullshit and need to dismantled atleast large parts of it.. but i dont understand why they jump instantly to models of china and Russia.. like i said maybe i dont understand it well enough..

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[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 11 months ago (5 children)

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[–] respectmahauthoritybrah@sh.itjust.works -2 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Thanks for ur perspective, i think they r fair points, but you are giving up a lot of personal liberty and freedom of expression if you are OK with systems of something like PRC, but i suppose that can be classified as a choice However I think that the censorship that goes around such countries also makes it harder for us to know anything other than for example China might want to show us, we dont really have much idea of how internal dynamics work there and if u choose to believe personal testimonies its not pretty…

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[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 11 months ago (4 children)

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[–] Digit@lemmy.wtf 1 point 11 months ago

Fun graph.

Is it okay to say otherwise? No repercussions to saying anything bad about the government? Or even perceptions that there may be repercussions?

I say this wittingly at risk of suffering the same heavy downvotes as the responder who merely concluded "the china one raises some questions…". Someone (or more ideally everybody) needs to stay curious and question things...

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[–] respectmahauthoritybrah@sh.itjust.works -3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I dont think even you would agree that china is democratic tho.. not to say the west are perfect democracies, and the data u provided reflects people thoughts.. the china one raises some questions..

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[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

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[–] respectmahauthoritybrah@sh.itjust.works -3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

Peoples satisfaction isnt a metric of democracy, are a lot of people happy with chinas government? Maybe, minorities certainly arent tho But the reason its undemocratic is that there isnt really anything to challenge the CCP or its policies, and dissent is punished and censored, people have historically been happy under monarchs, but doesnt make them democratic..