▲ 418 ▼ Valve makes almost $50 million per employee, raking in more cash per person than Google, Amazon, or Microsoft — gaming giant's 350 employees on track to generate $17 billion this year (www.tomshardware.com) submitted 11 months ago by alessandro@lemmy.ca to c/pcgaming@lemmy.ca 119 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] falseWhite@lemmy.world 50 points 11 months ago* (21 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source hideshow 21 child comments replies: [–] Carnelian@lemmy.world 92 points 11 months ago (9 children) Did a little digging, apparently in a 2021 lawsuit, documents were released with bad redactions (they blacked out over the data, but the underlying information was still able to be highlighted and copied/pasted. Very common error when redacting PDFs) I haven’t checked the data myself but according one user this was the breakdown: “Total staff as of 2021: 336 people Administration: 35 people making an average of 4.5 million a year Game Developers: 181 people making an average of 1 million a year Steam Developers: 79 people making an average of 960k a year Hardware Developers: 41 people making average of 430k a year” Normally I would guess that “average” here probably means a few people making a ton of money while others get shafted. But I think “admin” probably accounts for that. We have no official way of knowing the true breakdown since this info is not supposed to be public permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 63 points 11 months ago (4 children) This actually seems like not a terrible spread. The average for the top earners is a little more than 10x the average for the lowest earners... Obviously outliers could be skewing that data (there could be one hardware developer making 30 million while the others work for poverty wages) but from the data we have, this isn't nearly as wide a gap as I would have expected. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Coelacanth@feddit.nu 32 points 11 months ago Wouldn't surprise that much, as far as I've heard from as far as I remember Valve is a great place to work and by all accounts treat their employees well. permalink fedilink source parent [–] jaselle@lemmy.ca 28 points 11 months ago (1 child) Valve moved into hardware long after its other ventures, so it's not surprising the hardware devs make less -- they're newer. Still, $430k/yr is an enviable salary... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 15 points 11 months ago This was from 2021, so prior to the Steam Deck... that was really their break-out moment, I think, with regards to hardware. The Steam Link and Steam Controller were neat but didn't really capture their respective markets, and the Index was widely considered one of the best VR headsets on the market but that's a relatively small market, and it priced out all but the enthusiast tier consumers. The Steam Deck on the other hand had mass appeal and basically ushered in a golden age of handheld PC gaming... not to mention the immense hype around their recent hardware announcements. Could be that their hardware team is making more now. permalink fedilink source parent [–] freebee@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago The lowest earners making the company work aren't mentioned here. It's probably an external company cleaning the toilets, for hourly rates you probably don't want to know. permalink fedilink source parent [–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 8 points 11 months ago (3 children) What does administration mean there? Like accounting, human resources and so? How could they make, in average, way more that developers?? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] fushuan@lemmy.blahaj.zone 23 points 11 months ago (2 children) I'd think it's marketing teams, HR, managers, the C-suite. Those who manage people usually make more than those who dos tuff because they take on more responsibilities. Yeah I know that's bullshit and that they shift responsibilities all the time, but good managers do shoulder bullshit so workers can work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 13 points 11 months ago The C-suite being included there made sense of that disparity. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 7 points 11 months ago* I mean yeah and no. I manage a team, I make 10%-12% more than the team even though technically we do the same tasks. The difference is I need to know their job, but also manage a schedule, and allocate resources, while planning sales for the future stream so they don't run out of work. It's a different skillset on top of the team skill requirement. Not justifying a C suite at 20 million over dudes making 60k though permalink fedilink source parent [–] navi@lemmy.tespia.org 36 points 11 months ago A highschool friends dad worked at Valve and they'd take the entire company and their families to Hawaii every year. Seemed like a good place to work. permalink fedilink source parent [–] dukemirage@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago No no Gabe just works 31.244.670 times as much as his employees. permalink fedilink source parent [–] GeneralEmergency@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago Hey that's not fair. Gabe is also spending all that money on Aston Martins Valkyries to race around the world. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MBech@feddit.dk 23 points 11 months ago (6 children) Would make him the first billionaire in history to pay his workers their worth, so.... Not a fucking chance. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] stupidcasey@lemmy.world -15 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (5 children) Unfortunately that isn't true, by accident this has been tested by tech companies like Netflix they were paid in stocks when the company was worth nothing but as it grew they got paid more and more until it became apparent that they didn't actually have to work anymore entire companies became filled with zombie employees people who don't work like at all beyond what they are contractually obligated to do, it created huge discontent between the teirs of worker the one's actually doing the work and the ones getting paid, you almost can't pay people beyond a certain amount because they don't work for you then they don't need to they can live a perfectly fine life without working and nothing gets done so you just have to higher a new staff who once again you can't in pay too much or they won't need to work and you'll just have more zombie employees. It is actually very well established: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11211-008-0063-2 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0030507368900093 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation_crowding_theory https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3906839/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214804322001422 https://www.bsfrey.ch/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/crowding-effects-on-intrinsic-motivation.pdf permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] falseWhite@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago* (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stupidcasey@lemmy.world -2 points 11 months ago (1 child) It is actually very well established: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11211-008-0063-2 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0030507368900093 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation_crowding_theory https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3906839/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214804322001422 https://www.bsfrey.ch/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/crowding-effects-on-intrinsic-motivation.pdf permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] MBech@feddit.dk 27 points 11 months ago* people who don’t work like at all beyond what they are contractually obligated to do I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. Why do you frame the workers doing the work they're paid to do as bad? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago That sounds a lot like the violence inherent in the system permalink fedilink source parent [–] flandish@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago capitalism gonna capitalism, man. you know the answer. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Carnelian@lemmy.world 92 points 11 months ago (9 children) Did a little digging, apparently in a 2021 lawsuit, documents were released with bad redactions (they blacked out over the data, but the underlying information was still able to be highlighted and copied/pasted. Very common error when redacting PDFs) I haven’t checked the data myself but according one user this was the breakdown: “Total staff as of 2021: 336 people Administration: 35 people making an average of 4.5 million a year Game Developers: 181 people making an average of 1 million a year Steam Developers: 79 people making an average of 960k a year Hardware Developers: 41 people making average of 430k a year” Normally I would guess that “average” here probably means a few people making a ton of money while others get shafted. But I think “admin” probably accounts for that. We have no official way of knowing the true breakdown since this info is not supposed to be public permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments replies: [–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 63 points 11 months ago (4 children) This actually seems like not a terrible spread. The average for the top earners is a little more than 10x the average for the lowest earners... Obviously outliers could be skewing that data (there could be one hardware developer making 30 million while the others work for poverty wages) but from the data we have, this isn't nearly as wide a gap as I would have expected. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Coelacanth@feddit.nu 32 points 11 months ago Wouldn't surprise that much, as far as I've heard from as far as I remember Valve is a great place to work and by all accounts treat their employees well. permalink fedilink source parent [–] jaselle@lemmy.ca 28 points 11 months ago (1 child) Valve moved into hardware long after its other ventures, so it's not surprising the hardware devs make less -- they're newer. Still, $430k/yr is an enviable salary... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 15 points 11 months ago This was from 2021, so prior to the Steam Deck... that was really their break-out moment, I think, with regards to hardware. The Steam Link and Steam Controller were neat but didn't really capture their respective markets, and the Index was widely considered one of the best VR headsets on the market but that's a relatively small market, and it priced out all but the enthusiast tier consumers. The Steam Deck on the other hand had mass appeal and basically ushered in a golden age of handheld PC gaming... not to mention the immense hype around their recent hardware announcements. Could be that their hardware team is making more now. permalink fedilink source parent [–] freebee@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago The lowest earners making the company work aren't mentioned here. It's probably an external company cleaning the toilets, for hourly rates you probably don't want to know. permalink fedilink source parent [–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 8 points 11 months ago (3 children) What does administration mean there? Like accounting, human resources and so? How could they make, in average, way more that developers?? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] fushuan@lemmy.blahaj.zone 23 points 11 months ago (2 children) I'd think it's marketing teams, HR, managers, the C-suite. Those who manage people usually make more than those who dos tuff because they take on more responsibilities. Yeah I know that's bullshit and that they shift responsibilities all the time, but good managers do shoulder bullshit so workers can work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 13 points 11 months ago The C-suite being included there made sense of that disparity. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 7 points 11 months ago* I mean yeah and no. I manage a team, I make 10%-12% more than the team even though technically we do the same tasks. The difference is I need to know their job, but also manage a schedule, and allocate resources, while planning sales for the future stream so they don't run out of work. It's a different skillset on top of the team skill requirement. Not justifying a C suite at 20 million over dudes making 60k though permalink fedilink source parent
[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 63 points 11 months ago (4 children) This actually seems like not a terrible spread. The average for the top earners is a little more than 10x the average for the lowest earners... Obviously outliers could be skewing that data (there could be one hardware developer making 30 million while the others work for poverty wages) but from the data we have, this isn't nearly as wide a gap as I would have expected. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Coelacanth@feddit.nu 32 points 11 months ago Wouldn't surprise that much, as far as I've heard from as far as I remember Valve is a great place to work and by all accounts treat their employees well. permalink fedilink source parent [–] jaselle@lemmy.ca 28 points 11 months ago (1 child) Valve moved into hardware long after its other ventures, so it's not surprising the hardware devs make less -- they're newer. Still, $430k/yr is an enviable salary... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 15 points 11 months ago This was from 2021, so prior to the Steam Deck... that was really their break-out moment, I think, with regards to hardware. The Steam Link and Steam Controller were neat but didn't really capture their respective markets, and the Index was widely considered one of the best VR headsets on the market but that's a relatively small market, and it priced out all but the enthusiast tier consumers. The Steam Deck on the other hand had mass appeal and basically ushered in a golden age of handheld PC gaming... not to mention the immense hype around their recent hardware announcements. Could be that their hardware team is making more now. permalink fedilink source parent [–] freebee@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago The lowest earners making the company work aren't mentioned here. It's probably an external company cleaning the toilets, for hourly rates you probably don't want to know. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Coelacanth@feddit.nu 32 points 11 months ago Wouldn't surprise that much, as far as I've heard from as far as I remember Valve is a great place to work and by all accounts treat their employees well. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jaselle@lemmy.ca 28 points 11 months ago (1 child) Valve moved into hardware long after its other ventures, so it's not surprising the hardware devs make less -- they're newer. Still, $430k/yr is an enviable salary... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 15 points 11 months ago This was from 2021, so prior to the Steam Deck... that was really their break-out moment, I think, with regards to hardware. The Steam Link and Steam Controller were neat but didn't really capture their respective markets, and the Index was widely considered one of the best VR headsets on the market but that's a relatively small market, and it priced out all but the enthusiast tier consumers. The Steam Deck on the other hand had mass appeal and basically ushered in a golden age of handheld PC gaming... not to mention the immense hype around their recent hardware announcements. Could be that their hardware team is making more now. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 15 points 11 months ago This was from 2021, so prior to the Steam Deck... that was really their break-out moment, I think, with regards to hardware. The Steam Link and Steam Controller were neat but didn't really capture their respective markets, and the Index was widely considered one of the best VR headsets on the market but that's a relatively small market, and it priced out all but the enthusiast tier consumers. The Steam Deck on the other hand had mass appeal and basically ushered in a golden age of handheld PC gaming... not to mention the immense hype around their recent hardware announcements. Could be that their hardware team is making more now. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] freebee@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago The lowest earners making the company work aren't mentioned here. It's probably an external company cleaning the toilets, for hourly rates you probably don't want to know. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 8 points 11 months ago (3 children) What does administration mean there? Like accounting, human resources and so? How could they make, in average, way more that developers?? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] fushuan@lemmy.blahaj.zone 23 points 11 months ago (2 children) I'd think it's marketing teams, HR, managers, the C-suite. Those who manage people usually make more than those who dos tuff because they take on more responsibilities. Yeah I know that's bullshit and that they shift responsibilities all the time, but good managers do shoulder bullshit so workers can work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 13 points 11 months ago The C-suite being included there made sense of that disparity. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 7 points 11 months ago* I mean yeah and no. I manage a team, I make 10%-12% more than the team even though technically we do the same tasks. The difference is I need to know their job, but also manage a schedule, and allocate resources, while planning sales for the future stream so they don't run out of work. It's a different skillset on top of the team skill requirement. Not justifying a C suite at 20 million over dudes making 60k though permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fushuan@lemmy.blahaj.zone 23 points 11 months ago (2 children) I'd think it's marketing teams, HR, managers, the C-suite. Those who manage people usually make more than those who dos tuff because they take on more responsibilities. Yeah I know that's bullshit and that they shift responsibilities all the time, but good managers do shoulder bullshit so workers can work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 13 points 11 months ago The C-suite being included there made sense of that disparity. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 7 points 11 months ago* I mean yeah and no. I manage a team, I make 10%-12% more than the team even though technically we do the same tasks. The difference is I need to know their job, but also manage a schedule, and allocate resources, while planning sales for the future stream so they don't run out of work. It's a different skillset on top of the team skill requirement. Not justifying a C suite at 20 million over dudes making 60k though permalink fedilink source parent
[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 13 points 11 months ago The C-suite being included there made sense of that disparity. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 7 points 11 months ago* I mean yeah and no. I manage a team, I make 10%-12% more than the team even though technically we do the same tasks. The difference is I need to know their job, but also manage a schedule, and allocate resources, while planning sales for the future stream so they don't run out of work. It's a different skillset on top of the team skill requirement. Not justifying a C suite at 20 million over dudes making 60k though permalink fedilink source parent
[–] navi@lemmy.tespia.org 36 points 11 months ago A highschool friends dad worked at Valve and they'd take the entire company and their families to Hawaii every year. Seemed like a good place to work. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dukemirage@lemmy.world 15 points 11 months ago No no Gabe just works 31.244.670 times as much as his employees. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] GeneralEmergency@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago Hey that's not fair. Gabe is also spending all that money on Aston Martins Valkyries to race around the world. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MBech@feddit.dk 23 points 11 months ago (6 children) Would make him the first billionaire in history to pay his workers their worth, so.... Not a fucking chance. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] stupidcasey@lemmy.world -15 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (5 children) Unfortunately that isn't true, by accident this has been tested by tech companies like Netflix they were paid in stocks when the company was worth nothing but as it grew they got paid more and more until it became apparent that they didn't actually have to work anymore entire companies became filled with zombie employees people who don't work like at all beyond what they are contractually obligated to do, it created huge discontent between the teirs of worker the one's actually doing the work and the ones getting paid, you almost can't pay people beyond a certain amount because they don't work for you then they don't need to they can live a perfectly fine life without working and nothing gets done so you just have to higher a new staff who once again you can't in pay too much or they won't need to work and you'll just have more zombie employees. It is actually very well established: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11211-008-0063-2 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0030507368900093 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation_crowding_theory https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3906839/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214804322001422 https://www.bsfrey.ch/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/crowding-effects-on-intrinsic-motivation.pdf permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] falseWhite@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago* (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stupidcasey@lemmy.world -2 points 11 months ago (1 child) It is actually very well established: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11211-008-0063-2 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0030507368900093 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation_crowding_theory https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3906839/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214804322001422 https://www.bsfrey.ch/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/crowding-effects-on-intrinsic-motivation.pdf permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] MBech@feddit.dk 27 points 11 months ago* people who don’t work like at all beyond what they are contractually obligated to do I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. Why do you frame the workers doing the work they're paid to do as bad? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago That sounds a lot like the violence inherent in the system permalink fedilink source parent
[+] stupidcasey@lemmy.world -15 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (5 children) Unfortunately that isn't true, by accident this has been tested by tech companies like Netflix they were paid in stocks when the company was worth nothing but as it grew they got paid more and more until it became apparent that they didn't actually have to work anymore entire companies became filled with zombie employees people who don't work like at all beyond what they are contractually obligated to do, it created huge discontent between the teirs of worker the one's actually doing the work and the ones getting paid, you almost can't pay people beyond a certain amount because they don't work for you then they don't need to they can live a perfectly fine life without working and nothing gets done so you just have to higher a new staff who once again you can't in pay too much or they won't need to work and you'll just have more zombie employees. It is actually very well established: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11211-008-0063-2 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0030507368900093 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation_crowding_theory https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3906839/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214804322001422 https://www.bsfrey.ch/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/crowding-effects-on-intrinsic-motivation.pdf permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] falseWhite@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago* (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stupidcasey@lemmy.world -2 points 11 months ago (1 child) It is actually very well established: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11211-008-0063-2 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0030507368900093 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation_crowding_theory https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3906839/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214804322001422 https://www.bsfrey.ch/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/crowding-effects-on-intrinsic-motivation.pdf permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) [–] MBech@feddit.dk 27 points 11 months ago* people who don’t work like at all beyond what they are contractually obligated to do I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. Why do you frame the workers doing the work they're paid to do as bad? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago That sounds a lot like the violence inherent in the system permalink fedilink source parent
[+] falseWhite@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago* (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stupidcasey@lemmy.world -2 points 11 months ago (1 child) It is actually very well established: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11211-008-0063-2 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0030507368900093 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation_crowding_theory https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3906839/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214804322001422 https://www.bsfrey.ch/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/crowding-effects-on-intrinsic-motivation.pdf permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] stupidcasey@lemmy.world -2 points 11 months ago (1 child) It is actually very well established: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11211-008-0063-2 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0030507368900093 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation_crowding_theory https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3906839/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2214804322001422 https://www.bsfrey.ch/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/crowding-effects-on-intrinsic-motivation.pdf permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] MBech@feddit.dk 27 points 11 months ago* people who don’t work like at all beyond what they are contractually obligated to do I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. Why do you frame the workers doing the work they're paid to do as bad? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago That sounds a lot like the violence inherent in the system permalink fedilink source parent
[–] flandish@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago capitalism gonna capitalism, man. you know the answer. permalink fedilink source parent