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Switch to a Fully free Operating System (piefed.social)
submitted 11 months ago by to c/linux@lemmy.ml
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As per fsf only those linux distributions are 100% free:

Dragora
Dyne
Guix
Hyperbola
Parabola
PureOS
Trisquel
Ututo
libreCMC
ProteanOS

Do you agree or no?

I see a lot of people that want to switch from windows to a linux distro or a open os. But from what i see they tend to migrate to another black boxed/closed os.

What is a trully free os that doesnt included any closed code/binary blobs/closed drivers etc.

Just 100% free open code, no traps.

What are the options and what should one go with if they want fully free os that rejects any closed code?

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[–] 15 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (26 children)

Can someone educate me on why the more common ones like Debian and Arch aren't on this list? Every single day Linux communities force me to look at computer stuff in a different light

Edit: I learned a lot and accidentally incited discourse oops

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  • [–] 28 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Usually because they include by default some proprietary software. Usually that is firmware for processors or graphics. Or they by default include repositories with non-free software. Also media codecs are a common one too.

    The FSF takes a pretty extremist approach to FOSS. Which isn't necessarily bad.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    It's not just by default it seems, they excluded Debian because it had a toggle to be able to choose to add it during install(pre-2022), so it seems that their criteria is any type of affiliation with non-free software

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Debian is actually 100% free if you only enable the main repos.

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    They actually explain why they don't endorse Debian in the link the person above you added. Apparently since you /can/ enable the non-free repos in the installer, it doesn't classify as 100% free. I don't agree with the statement and find it weird, but that's how they defined it.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah. The Debian Free Software Guidelines are actually very strict if you read them. The FSF are just purists, even if 100% free software is the default. I don't really understand it.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I somewhat agree with their mentality on post 2022 Debian since they had changed the default and made it harder to disable non-free from the start but, from what I understood by reading the FAQ page, even prior to bookworm it wasn't endorsed due to having the toggle in the first place, which I find super weird.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    If you don't make a conscious decision to disallow free software it becomes too easy to normalize its inclusion.

    even prior to bookworm it wasn’t endorsed due to having the toggle in the first place, which I find super weird.

    They probably predicted (correctly) that this attitude would eventually lead to the decision that they ultimately made in 2022.

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  • [+] [S] -25 points 11 months ago* (17 children)

    because they ship with closed source software/packages/drivers/firmware/kernel blobs etc.

    most linux distros are the same trap that windows locks you into.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (14 children)

    What a bunch of bullshit.

    Linux, first of all, is the kernel. Linux is GPL and always free.

    And userspace zurück itself is about 90% free.

    Of course, you can choose a 100% free os, then make sure you use a free bios and only open hardware CPU and Mainboard and memory! 09 This argument is esoteric. I am an FSF member, but I use Steam on Gentoo.

    The idea behind such distro lists is to show how hard it still is to provide a really 100% open source distro.

    Let me remind you, what is non free in in most systems:

    • CPU microcode!
    • GPU Firmware
    • Wifi / BT / Ethernet firmware
    • Media Codecs

    Stuff most users need!

    And what the fuck is I distro locking me in? I can switch my distro between boots without fucking loosing any data or configs, I can choose what to install. I can install stuff from source. How can you even try to compare this with Microsofts property black box?

    Because you can not see what the microcode blob does with your CPU? The CPU you can not inspect also? Or the GPU? Or the BIOS?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I agree , I use multiple distros including #guix use nongnu software because I can’t get libre drivers. Not sure where “vendor lock-in” for Linux distribution comes from. FSF is great but I don’t have the resources , time to find all the libre drivers for my systems. I have been using Linux/BSD for decades. Also Linux is just a kernel not the userland which most people think it is.

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  • [+] [S] -6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (12 children)

    kernel is not free
    it ships with blobs/proprietary crap etc
    if it was free gnu-linux libre wouldnt have existed

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    The kernel itself does not contain blobs, firmware or microcode. That is loaded after boot if you've chosen to do so.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    lol i'm sure the average joe who switches from windows to you name what linux distro does this by himself and not the os doing it for him wtf

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    So, you have an open system with coreboot, and do not use firmware?

    You don't load the microcode patches that makes you CPU safe?

    You know that then you should not use any browser with JS or WASM engine? just asking because those exploits are still being used ...

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    I'm responding to this:

    kernel is not free it ships with blobs/proprietary crap etc

    That is not true.

    lol i'm sure the average joe who switches from windows to you name what linux distro does this by himself

    Neither do you. And what that has to do with windows users is beyond me.

    If you want gnu/herd, you're free to install and use it. You will have no:

    • MP3 playback
    • use for wine (wine is Foss, but almost no windows executables are)
    • practically no WiFi
    • no discord
    • no zoom
    • no widevine
    • no ms teams working properly

    Drawing a hard line in the sand about FOSS is possible, but you must give up many modern conveniences.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (4 children)
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  • [–] [S] -2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

    Explain then why gnu-linux libre kernel exists if linux kernel is totally free?

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I don't know, they seem to scrub everything related to firmware loading and more. A whole while ago, the kernel contained blobs. Those are moved to the Linux firmware project and no longer part of the kernel l.

    So, you are the one here claiming stuff. Proof it. Where is the firmware in the kernel tree?

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  • [–] [S] -3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    you dont know but yet you talk rubbish

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    You claimed there are binary firmware blobs in the Kernel tree. And the kernel is not free. That is your claim. Proof it!

    I am building my kernel from sources. I am writing Kernel modules. I damn well know what in the kernel is.

    So, come on. If this such a critical issue that you will for sure have no issues to proof it.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Have ever tried to learn what exactly their scrips doing of their project please do ,the most worst part they hidding bummer that u are running not secure microcode .I like ideas behind fsf but their paradigm and what they trying to do is useless and not effective anymore we need something new with same ideas

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago*

    There doesn't exist much hardware that has fully open firmware enitely on mass market. I'm not talking about GPUs and CPUs but even WiFi dongles . The FSF is pretty hypocritical in that they're okay with closed firmware which is built into devices themselves, but they're not okay with firmware that comes as a file. This is nonsense. Also, they forbid distros which give you the ability to install non-free software even if you require it for your work, forbidding even Electron and fonts which have non-free licenses. This is not possible to live with in the modern patent world. And btw blobs not exist anymore in linux code of torvalds repo it was sepearated long time ago

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