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[+] 85 points 1 year ago (49 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    This guy wants you to keep doing the same useless thing, already obvious and ridiculed 150 years ago

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Any vote in the oligarchy is a vote thrown away.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    Lenin is talking about participating in voting for our own candidates and government, NOT for supporting the bourgeoisie.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    You are in duty bound to call their bourgeois-democratic and parliamentary prejudices what they are—prejudices. But at the same time you must soberly follow the actual state of the class-consciousness and preparedness of the entire class (not only of its communist vanguard), and of all the working people (not only of their advanced elements).

    We're still in the pretty heavy wake of McCarthyism, we're not at "run our own candidates on the general ballot" yet, we're at "vote lesser evil on the general ballot while we run our own candidates locally and try to win primaries".

    Whilst you lack the strength to do away with bourgeois parliaments and every other type of reactionary institution, you must work within them because it is there that you will still find workers who are duped by the priests and stultified by the conditions of rural life; otherwise you risk turning into nothing but windbags.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. If the forces of democracy take decisive, terroristic action against the reaction from the very beginning, the reactionary influence in the election will already have been destroyed.

    • Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, Address of the Central Comittee to the Communist League, 1850

    Karl Marx on liberal 'lesser evil'

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Yeah and I think 1) that was 175 years ago 2) that while a brilliant thinker on the subject of structures and inevitabilities, Marx was pretty naïve when it came to implementation.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Lenin's push for participation in elections was due to the Duma which kept getting dissolved by the Czar for becoming increasingly anti monarchy. Between 1906 and 1917 several had been dissolved due to growing constitutional monarchy among the peasants.

    Without historical context it sounds like lenin advocated participating in all bourgeoisie elections.

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  • Uh, no. The context is very clear, he offers it himself. He's talking about movements in other countries, where class consciousness isn't sufficient for more direct alternatives, specifically Germany. He didn't mention the Czar or the Duma once in this text.

    You should really just read it, it's pretty short.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    How dare you be reasonable and actually try and solve problems instead of just complaining and demonizing anyone who's not left enough!

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  • [+] -15 points 1 year ago (23 children)

    If recent history is any indicator of how much Democrats are willing to fight for what's right, I have better things to do with my fucking time than vote. I'm done with them.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (20 children)

    If slightly less but still very much recent history is any indicator, that attitude is exactly what got us into this shit in the first place. One group isn't doing what's right, so let's just hand victory to the group that pledges to do as much evil as they think they can get away with. Too many people with better things to do with their fucking time than keep a felon pedophile rapist wannabe-Mussolini conman out of office, I guess. Glad you got all the better things done though, with your fucking time.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If the last 24 hours is any indicator, the democratic party is cowardly, weak, spineless, and ineffectual and I refuse to waste another nanosecond on them.

    If neither side is capable of, in your own words, "doing what's right", why waste time on either of them?

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago

    Because, as I already (rather pointedly, I thought) said, one party isn't not doing "what's right," (Which are your words, actually. I was quoting you.) it is actively and aggressively doing what's very, very wrong. If those two are equivalent to you, then by all means don't vote, as you might just be doing the rest of us a favor.

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  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    Democrats got us into the mess we are in

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Right, because the Republicans control the presidency, the house, the Senate, and inexplicably the supreme court, obviously it's those darn stinking Democrats who did all this. Don't get me wrong, I am livid at their inaction, but to throw your hands up and say "whelp, better just hand the Republicans the key to the castle" is at best defeatist and at worst actively destroying this country.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    at worst actively destroying this country.

    That's the best thing that can happen for the rest of the world, constantly bullied and terrorised by the bipartisan regime.
    But americans didn't give a fuck about that. Now they cry bcs they got a taste of their own medicine.
    Well guess what, we don't give a fuck about you either, on the contrary.
    Let Trump do his worst and you can all rot in hell where you belong.
    The sooner the better.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Ah, so you're going mask off as just being a bad person? Nice.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    yes you've got me.
    Being against the cancer of the earth, that has invaded, carpet bombed, droned, bullied, regime changed or sanctioned half the world and helped terrorists or genocide regimes is being a bad person.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You're in favor of civillians suffering because their goverment is authoritarian. That makes you just as bad as the authoritarian government.

    Same energy as me saying "i hope all the russians suffer because of putin".

    Yes. Your advocacy for this position makes you a bad person.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    half of those people chose for that, the other ones for the light authoritarian version.
    As I said, you're all guilty, half of you are just hypocrites pretending to be better.

    Same energy as me saying “i hope all the russians suffer because of putin”.

    LOL again hypocrites, like it's not most of you dehumanising the 'orcs' and 'Ruzzians'.
    Disgusting comments on vile videos war deaths they so enjoy posting.
    And what authoritarian party was that ghoul Clinton from?
    You know, the sociopath having an orgasm when she could enthusiastically share with the world how your regime terrorist proxies sodomised Gadhaffi with a bajonet?
    Or the drone king, Genocide Joe?

    But you want to distance yourself now from this particular authoritarian government?
    You disgust me, only an american would be this arrogant, pretentious and deluded to call someone a bad person for calling out their hypocrisy and double standards.
    Disgusting people

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  • [+] 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    In 2020 they pushed a candidate with obvious mental decline and hid it for the next 4 years. Allowed him to study in the running until primaries were over so they could install another person that wasn't trusted

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    That's a lot of words for giving the nazis a pass for being nazis

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Democrat ratchet effect gives Nazis a pass to be Nazis

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You don't beat the ratchet effect by ignoring it, you beat it by keeping the ratchet in the stationary position until you can figure out how to loose the pawl. No one on the left benefits by letting the ratchet twist right. Well, accelerations do in theory, but I reject the collateral damage of that strategy.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Talking as if voters have any leverage on that ratchet, they give up what little leverage they might have with every vote cast for Democrats.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago

    Incorrect. The one form of leverage they have on the ratchet is choosing between the spinny part and the still part. Every vote for a Democrat is a vote for the still part. Every vote not cast for the still part is a willful gamble on the spinny part.

    Both parts are bad, but the spinny part is worse and getting worser. Electoral leverage has a fairly narrow and unambiguous scope, and for anyone on the left who doesn't have the luxury of RCV or competitive third parties, that leverage is best applied via BNMW.

    Other forms of leverage (local elections, workplace unionization, direct action) are highly encouraged, but beyond the scope of elections. Those other forms of leverage will be more productive under the lesser evil than the greater one. Every vote cast for a Democrat (excepting districts where third parties are competitive, obviously) is a vote for the most favorable achievable conditions to effect other forms of leverage.

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  • [+] -10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    This guy wants you to throw your vote away.

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