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What the democrats just did. (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world
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[–] 65 points 1 year ago (45 children)

They held out until the election was over. They had the voters behind them on this and naturally betrayed them immediately as soon as they got what they wanted.

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  • [+] -16 points 1 year ago (44 children)

    They had the voters behind them on this

    You just say whatever 'feels' right, huh?

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (29 children)

    Did you even read your own source? <5% of registered dems blamed the dems, and ~21% of registered independents.

    https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/53352-are-people-changing-their-minds-about-the-shutdown

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  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (28 children)

    Americans are divided in who they blame more for the shutdown: In a choice between congressional Democrats and congressional Republicans, 32% blame Democrats most, 35% Republicans, and 28% both equally. Compared to when we asked this question in the October 17 - 20 Economist / YouGov survey, the share blaming mostly Republicans has fallen 4 percentage points and the share blaming both sides equally has gone up by 4 points.

    A shutdown, furthermore, that most voters were against to begin with.

    I'm happy that the Dems held out. Hell, I'm happy that the majority is still holding out, despite those breaking ranks looking to undermine the effort. But that's not the same as pretending we are the fucking majority

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (26 children)

    Funny that you didn't post the parts immediately before and after that snippet. Before:

    A YouGov survey released Friday found 32 percent of respondents blame Democrats for the shutdown, while 35 percent fault Republicans and 28 percent say both parties are equally responsible.

    After:

    But over the past month, net approval for how parties are handling the shutdown has worsened for both President Trump (-21 to -27) and congressional Republicans (-23 to -27). Net approval for congressional Democrats has stayed low but mostly unchanged (-25 to -26) since October, according to YouGov.

    You're just hyper-focusing on the part that you find rhetorically convenient. More people still blamed the Republicans and support for the Republicans's handling of the shutdown was falling faster.

    A shutdown, furthermore, that most voters were against to begin with.

    Lmao did you just provide more evidence to undermine your own position?

    Who would you blame more if there is a shutdown of the federal government at the end of the month, the Democrats in Congress, Donald Trump and the Republicans in Congress or both equally? Or have you not heard enough to say?

    Democrats in Congress 19%

    Donald Trump and the Republicans in Congress 26%

    Grow a spine.

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  • [+] -10 points 1 year ago (24 children)

    You’re just hyper-focusing on the part that you find rhetorically convenient. More people still blamed the Republicans and support for the Republicans’s handling of the shutdown was falling faster.

    "More people blamed the Republicans, but most people are not in support of the shutdown and the numbers for the Dems are worsening"

    Yes, clearly this contradicts what I initially commented.

    Go back to remedial literacy. Get a passing grade this time, if you can understand which of the funny symbols that is.

    Lmao did you just provide more evidence to undermine your own position?

    I'm sorry that you're illiterate.

    image

    Grow a spine.

    Grow a brain, or a sense of morality. But pro-genocide bootlickers like you revel in the deaths of minorities, if only it's done by the fascists wearing the right team colors. That's why you deny the Uyghur Genocide, after all.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (23 children)

    But pro-genocide bootlickers like you revel in the deaths of minorities, if only it’s done by the fascists wearing the right team colors

    Looked in a mirror lately?

    I don't support any genocide, the way you do.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago (22 children)

    Looked in a mirror lately?

    This you, denialist bootlicker?

    I don’t support any genocide, the way you do.

    You're right, because I don't support genocide. We are clearly very far apart on that matter.

    Sorry that I've been calling out Palestinian genocide for over a decade. I know that's terribly inconvenient for bootlickers like you who desperately want others to be your mirror image. I'm sorry that my position on genocide isn't determined by team colors.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (20 children)

    Of course that's me. I have not seen reliable evidence that a genocide is or was happening there. As I recall from a previous conversation, your rather silly stance on that was that you don't have to provide evidence to support a claim of genocide, on the basis that I'm a fascist, which you concluded from the fact that I deny your baseless claims of genocide. A classic, textbook case of circular logic.

    I said that I don't support any genocide. I don't believe that anybody should start genociding Uighurs. I do deny genocides, such as the supposed "white genocide" that fascists go on about, or any other claims of genocide that aren't supported by evidence. In fact, I deny pretty much any claim that isn't supported by evidence. Apparently, your position is that if some random person tries to tell me that France is genociding Belgians, I'm supposed to accept that claim without question or else I'm a fascist, unworthy of the privilege of getting to see your evidence.

    Which brings me back to the question I posed on the linked post: Do you condemn the ongoing US genocide of Italians? Are you, or are you not, a genocide denier? Simple question, really. If you accept that it's happening, then there's no need to provide evidence, if you deny, you're a fascist and I won't provide you evidence because fascists don't deserve evidence, or something like that. Sorry, I'm not really as good at doing the whole witch trial thing as you are.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago* (19 children)

    Of course that’s me. I have not seen reliable evidence that a genocide is or was happening there.

    Thank you for confirming your genocide denial, fascist.

    As I recall from a previous conversation,

    The 'previous conversation' was you whinging in my inbox after you were banned after a lengthy and extensive denial of the Uyghur Genocide despite another commenter giving you ample evidence and examples on the historical photographs community I moderated. You wanted to restart the argument with me, and I told you to go fuck yourself for being a fascist, fascist.

    Ah, here is the entirety of my side of that 'conversation':

    image

    Look how clearly I state I'm going to engage with your sealioning, but then assert that evidence is irrelevant! 😭

    Oh, wait, no, I just told you to fuck off after you came crawling into my inbox.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    Really? Could you please link to this reliable evidence of genocide that I've never seen, that was supposedly presented to me? I'd be thrilled to finally see it, so I can finally renounce all my tankie ways and admit that I was wrong.

    Let me guess, this "evidence" all traced back to Adrian Zenz, the same way it has every single time one of you types it into Google and posts whatever articles sound like they support your conclusions without reading past the headline.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    As I stated in our original conversation that you whinged about in this comment chain:

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    Hey, it's the witch trial logic again! I'm a "fascist" because I don't believe claims without evidence, and therefore, I don't deserve to see your evidence. Which you totally, definitely have, right there, you just can't post it, because you could only post it if I said it was true, in which case you wouldn't post it because it wouldn't be necessary.

    Meanwhile, I assume that by completely ignoring my question on whether you condemn the US genocide of Italians, that means you support it. Why do you want to kill all Italians, fascist scum? You ought to be deplatformed from every community for this.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago* (15 children)

    Hey, it’s the witch trial logic again!

    "A witch trial is when I'm told to fuck off after slobbering all over genocidaire boots😭"

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    See, you only ever tell me to fuck off when you're backed into a corner where the only other option would be to actually provide evidence. You fucking love engaging with me, you'll argue any point, all day long, it's only when you're pressed for evidence and can't weasel out of it that you suddenly lose interest in the conversation. Or, as Sarte would say,

    “If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago* (13 children)

    Sorry that you don't like me providing evidence against your bullshit claims about our 'previous conversation', bootlicker, lmao

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (12 children)

    Fuck off, fascist genocide supporter. I know you love talking to me but stop following me to other threads.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago* (11 children)

    "I can't believe PugJesus saw a post I made on a Shitposting comm that he's been a part of for years and that's he been actively engaged in for the past several hours! He MUST be stalking me! 😭"

    Every bit as much the braindead pro-genocide whinger you were when you crawled into my inbox the first time.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    How many posts is that with you providing zero evidence? I should start keeping a tally. You're probably up to like a hundred with me alone.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    How many posts is that with you providing zero evidence?

    I'm sorry, do you want me to provide evidence that I've been engaged on here the past several hours? Is your memory that short? Fucking lmao.

    Sorry that you have a persecution complex in addition to your pro-Nazi leanings.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    No, I want you to provide evidence that the genocide you claim to exist actually exists. That's all I want from you and from now on it's the only thing I'll say to you.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    lol this thread is off the rails and should probably get modded

    My summary of the conversation so far: @PugJesus@piefed.social offered evidence of some (supposedly controversial) event. @Objection@lemmy.ml rejected it outright without offering any competing evidence. Both are, according to the other, somehow a variety of fascist bootlicker. The shitposting aura is weak; too serious.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    lol this thread is off the rails and should probably get modded

    Yes, it should be. I was trying to shitpost in peace when PJ comes here trying to start shit with me to distract from another conversation in order to weasel out of providing any evidence.

    offered evidence of some (supposedly controversial) event.

    Lol no he did not. Not even a shred. On principle, even.

    See, I'm accused of being a witch, and by asking for proof that any witchcraft actually happened I'm questioning the Inquisition and proving my guilt.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yes, it should be. I was trying to shitpost in peace

    LMAO

    You commented on one of my conversations in this thread, not the other way around.

    Are you a pathological liar, or just a habitual one?

    Or are you so detached from reality that you can't tell the difference?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    I mixed up the threads, which wouldn't have happened if you hadn't followed me around dragging it out into another thread in a desperate attempt to weasel out of providing the evidence that you don't have because it doesn't exist.

    Evidence or GTFO.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    You just defend the worst actions of democrats no matter what they do.

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  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

    So no response to actual evidence that the voters weren't behind them, cool.

    I guess your inner Republican craves 'truthiness' over truth, huh?

    I don't support the 8 Dems who broke ranks, but that's fucking different from pretending that this was a popular shutdown.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    So no response to actual evidence that the voters weren’t behind them, cool.

    You're not owed interaction on your terms. You're not entitled to a debate, sea lion.

    I don’t support the 8 Dems who broke ranks

    You are by making excuses for their actions. And I don't believe for an instant that you don't support this. You had your one little poll just ready to go for when your wing of the party did what you wanted, just like you spent an entire year supporting them BECAUSE they were selling weapons to netanyahu.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    You’re not owed interaction on your terms. You’re not entitled to a debate, sea lion.

    lmao

    The meaning of Sea Lioning is not "Refutes my points 😭" but "Insists on an engagement by bad faith inquiries"

    Engaging with me, and after I presented evidence, not a question, is as far from proving me a Sea Lion as you can get.

    Sorry that refuting your bullshit hurt your feelings.

    You are by making excuses for their actions.

    Where did I excuse their actions?

    And I don’t believe for an instant that you don’t support this.

    lmao

    You had your one little poll just ready to go for when your wing of the party did what you wanted,

    lmao

    just like you spent an entire year supporting them BECAUSE they were selling weapons to netanyahu.

    Fucking lmao.

    I've been calling out Israeli genocide and advocating against all US aid for Israel for longer than Lemmy has existed, but go off, I guess.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (8 children)

    The meaning of Sea Lioning is not “Refutes my points 😭” but “Insists on an engagement by bad faith inquiries”

    Yes. Which is what you were doing.

    Where did I excuse their actions?

    By pretending they had reason to fear continuing the shutdown. You know better.

    I’ve been calling out Israeli genocide and advocating against all US aid for Israel for longer than Lemmy has existed, but go off, I guess.

    And then started advocating for those who enabled netanyahu as soon as you made a lemmy account for some reason.

    If people were blaming the shutdown on democrats, they would have lost. They won. Now their voters are seeing that they've been had. Your wing of the party shamelessly betrayed its voters. Well, they didn't betray you.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Yes. Which is what you were doing.

    You think that... citing a source... and saying that you are incorrect... is a question.

    And you think that responding to me in an argument is me attempting to engage an unwilling participant by use of bad faith inquiries.

    ... fucking what.

    By pretending they had reason to fear continuing the shutdown. You know better.

    1. I don't 'know better', as public discontent over the shutdown is serious. I fear the backlash from the shutdown. I support the shutdown continuing for the dual reasons of the inhumanity of the GOP proposal and the fact that the backlash from GOP cuts might be worse in the long run not because I believe the shutdown is some massively popular issue at the moment. Some 70% of the electorate didn't want the Dems to pull the trigger on the shutdown - I'm glad they did anyway! But that's really fucking different from pretending that there's mass support for the issue.

    2. At no point was justification offered for the eight Dems who broke ranks; only that the notion that they had the voters 'behind them' was ridiculous by the numbers.

    And then started advocating for those who enabled netanyahu as soon as you made a lemmy account for some reason.

    Ah, yes, "Please don't assist the fascist, he's literally more pro-Israel than even Biden", the sin that a Very Real Leftist(tm) like yourself could never forgive. Any number of murdered minorities, after all, including additional murdered Palestinians, is worth your moral high ground of banging the drum against the great monolith of "The DEMS"

    If people were blaming the shutdown on democrats, they would have lost. They won.

    What the fuck?

    Now their voters are seeing that they’ve been had. Your wing of the party shamelessly betrayed its voters. Well, they didn’t betray you.

    Lord.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    And you think that responding to me in an argument is me attempting to engage an unwilling participant by use of bad faith inquiries.

    I had no desire to engage on your terms. Since I'm not named netanyahu, you don't care what I think.

    Ah, yes, “Please don’t assist the fascist, he’s literally more pro-Israel than even Biden”, the sin that a Very Real Leftist™ like yourself could never forgive.

    that hasn't been your messaging. Your messaging has been constant abuse at anyone who doesn't like genocide for any reason at all.

    Any number of murdered minorities, after all, including additional murdered Palestinians, is worth your moral high ground of banging the drum against the great monolith of “The DEMS”

    You preferred the murdered minorities over telling netanyahu no.

    If people were blaming the shutdown on democrats, they would have lost. They won.

    What the fuck?

    Centrists can't understand the concept of a mandate from the people.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I had no desire to engage on your terms. Since I’m not named netanyahu, you don’t care what I think.

    ... you're literally here, engaging, albeit doing so with subpar literacy and reasoning skills.

    that hasn’t been your messaging. Your messaging has been constant abuse at anyone who doesn’t like genocide for any reason at all.

    Lord.

    You preferred the murdered minorities over telling netanyahu no.

    Fucking what.

    Do you not understand what I'm saying, or is this non-sequitur intentional?

    Or do you think I'm secretly Biden himself?

    Centrists can’t understand the concept of a mandate from the people.

    ... fucking what.

    Do you... do you not understand the difference between elections at different levels of government? Do you not understand the concept of popularity and unpopularity enduring from one moment to the next, as with Mamdani's months-long lead, or are you incapable of conceptualizing anything outside of your immediate moment of consciousness right now?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    … you’re literally here, engaging

    But not on your terms.

    albeit doing so with subpar literacy and reasoning skills.

    There's some of that abuse I mentioned. You just can't help yourself.

    that hasn’t been your messaging. Your messaging has been constant abuse at anyone who doesn’t like genocide for any reason at all.

    Lord.

    That's not a denial.

    Do you not understand what I’m saying, or is this non-sequitur intentional?

    Understanding it and buying it are two different things.

    Or do you think I’m secretly Biden himself?

    No, you're to his right.

    Do you… do you not understand the difference between elections at different levels of government?

    I do. I also understand that the democrats' brand was in the toilet because they did what pro-genocide anti-worker anti-healthcare centrists like you wanted for so long. The second it started looking like they were changing for the better and had acquired a spine, they started winning again.

    Turns out, no. They were just pretending to have a spine until the polls closed. Yet another shutdown where democrats get nothing because they capitulate like you want.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    But not on your terms.

    You are literally responding to the points I raise, even if in a manner that gives no doubt as to your subpar (and by the already low standards of the American electorate) grasp of the issues.

    There’s some of that abuse I mentioned. You just can’t help yourself.

    Ah yes, the good old "I might be a genocide enabler, but you were mean to me, and that's worse!"

    You never fail to trot it out.

    That’s not a denial.

    I'm sorry for your lack of reading comprehension.

    Understanding it and buying it are two different things.

    Except I didn't expect you to 'buy it', I expected you to understand it, which clearly you didn't. That's what a non-sequitur response is - one which does not address the original point at all, not one which disagrees with it or disputes some fundamental part of it.

    Or do you think I’m secretly Biden himself?

    No, you’re to his right.

    Fucking lmao.

    I do. I also understand that the democrats’ brand was in the toilet because they did what pro-genocide anti-worker anti-healthcare centrists like you wanted for so long.

    I'm sorry for being a Bernie and Mamdani supporter, an anti-Zionist, and a socialist, lmao.

    The second it started looking like they were changing for the better and had acquired a spine, they started winning again.

    Again, this reflects a truly astounding lack of understanding of the interplay of the Federal shutdown with state and municipal elections.

    But I guess like a toddler enamored with a toy, there's only room for one thing on your mind at any given moment.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Ah yes, the good old “I might be a genocide enabler, but you were mean to me, and that’s worse!”

    You spent an entire year cheerleading the bidenyahu genocide while being abusive to anyone who doesn't love it as much as you always have and always will.

    I’m sorry for being a Bernie and Mamdani supporter, an anti-Zionist, and a socialist, lmao.

    You should be sorry for repeatedly lying like that.

    Again, this reflects a truly astounding lack of understanding of the interplay of the Federal shutdown with state and municipal elections.

    Again, you have no idea of how branding works. Or you like the party's current "fuck off if you're not literally netanyahu" branding.

    But I guess like a toddler

    Anyone who wants to can look at your comments and see that you do nothing but namecall anyone who disagrees with the capitulation you enthusiastically support.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You spent an entire year cheerleading the bidenyahu genocide while being abusive to anyone who doesn’t love it as much as you always have and always will.

    Fucking lmao.

    I'm sorry for opposing fascism, I know that's the sin of sins to you.

    You should be sorry for repeatedly lying like that.

    Two instances and a year and a half ago...

    image

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    It's really not a good idea to put ALL your Credibility Eggs into the Poll Basket. MAGAs have been gaming the polls for years, the Conservative Propaganda Machine tells them how, and encourages them, and they are becoming more and more unreliable. It's a very bad idea to rely on one single poll for all your evidence.

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