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[–] 70 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (27 children)

Religion is based on delusions without evidence, and the beliefs and practices are harmful to both individuals and society.
Ergo there is little difference between being religious to other forms of metal diseases.

Edit:
-mental diseases 🤣

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    ...for about 4000 years humans have been on the cusp of something greater, yet some religious fucks keep holding us back because we have to build pyramids...

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  • [+] 20 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    I don’t think people understand the amount of coercion inherent in any religion, even the more mundane ones, unless they were in it and got out. I grew up in a liberal brand of Lutheranism I like to refer to as beer-drinking Christianity because it’s so harmless seeming. And yet looking back it was rife with the kinds of things experts would absolutely label brainwashing tactics. Of course under the guise of fun activities like church camps and such but that makes it all the more dangerous.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Historically not the best take. Early civilizations like Egypt relied on religion to create a social hierarchy. The Pharoah was believed to be divine and that is why they had the right to rule.

    Even earlier in Mesopotamia those first city states operated on the same general idea. Religion seems to be an important part in forming early social hierarchy. You even see this in Aztec and Inca cultures.

    So yeah to have complex organized societies it seems a few pyramids were necessary.

    That being said now in the modern period religion isn't necessary, but it does seem to have been very important in the past to building complex society as we know it.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Society ≠ hierarchy.

    In fact, hierarchical authoritarianism (both religious, political, and mixtures) IS the proverbial pyramids.

    If not for the pyramids and the exploitation they represent, the Egyptians could have been a much more egalitarian and thus successful society.

    So yeah to have complex organized societies it seems a few pyramids were necessary

    Nope! Complexity and organization does NOT necessitate strict and often arbitrary hierarchy.

    That being said now in the modern period religion isn't necessary

    🧑‍🚀🔫🧑‍🚀

    but it does seem to have been very important in the past to building complex society

    Nope. They just hadn't invented better systems of government yet. In fact, every time social progress has been achieved, it's been in SPITE if religion, never because of it.

    as we know it.

    Yeah, very much the warts of it all.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    We have hierarchy, always have. Even chimpanzees have a social hierarchy.

    Every human society has had a hierarchy of some sort. What changes is the distribution of resources. Historically as societies become more complex social stratification increases and resources become less evenly distributed. Defining complex society is a bit well complex but I can go into the anthropological paradigms currently being used in the field if you want.

    Unfortunately you have taken a conversation focused on an anthropological/archaeological break down of human society's relation to organized religion and tried to match it to your political philosophy. I regret to inform you it does not.

    Now that being said what was does not necessitate what must be. I think we have to ask ourselves why as a species every time we developed a complex society we included stratification, religion, and an uneven distribution of resources if we ever want to move past those things. Is the answer truly as simple as "we just hadn't invented better systems of government yet"? Or is there something about our inherent being that causes us to repeat this pattern independently across multiple unrelated societies?

    I don't have the answers to these, no one does. And they are the subject of much academic debate.

    Now moving into the realm of personal opinion. I do agree that we have progressed and can form a much better form of governance. I do however believe that religion was an important factor in the creation of ancient socities and to the eventual progression to us. I do agree though that religion has caused a lot of harm and is not necessary for modern society. But in the times past where we were just beginning to write and raise crops there is an undeniable repeating pattern of religion and its relation to societal structure.

    So to sum it up politically and as it applies to modern times I'm with you. But as an archaeologist I have to disagree with your interpretation of the past.

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Man it sucks so hard that humans have been held back by religious fucks such as checks notes Isaac Newton.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Isaac Newton's religion was as relevant to his scientific achievements as Hitler's vegetarianism was to his atrocities.

    In other words: correlation doesn't equal causation.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, that's not my point. My point is that the statement "religious fucks have held us back for millennia" is nonsensical because before the last three hundred years or so everyone was a "religious fuck."

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Otherwise brilliant people who happen to be religious on the side are fine, if misguided.

    That's not who we're talking about here, though. "Religious fucks" in this context almost certainly means people and institutions who insist on their religion being the ultimate decider on what people are allowed to do, say, or even THINK.

    THOSE are a poison to freedom, creativity, and well-functioning society. Especially in the cases of theocracies and semi-theocracies like Israel and the US.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    i think using the word "a religious fanatic" would be a better term. im roman catholic, but sure as hell not ok with the shit going on down south of me from here up in Canada.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Sigh please change, Lemmy.

    PS: That's literally not what "mental disease" means.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    A behavioral or mental pattern that causes significant distress or impairment of personal functioning; however, it excludes normal responses such as the grief from loss of a loved one and also excludes deviant behavior for political, religious, or societal reasons not arising from a dysfunction in the individual.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    If you are delusional to a degree that it is preventing you to function in your daily life, that is absolutely mental disease. Per definition.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Do you... do you think religious people don't function in their daily lives?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Activities that are harmful to yourself and your surroundings are a form of not functioning.
    Being poor and voting Trump is a form of self harm.
    Disowning family and friends for being LGBT is a form of not functioning.
    Believing prosperity gospel and donating to a church is a form of self harm, and failure to address problems properly.
    Believing death is not that important because there's a way better afterlife is outright insane, and a huge potential cause for self harm.
    Except seeing how religious people who claim to believe that, are whining when they are about to die, proves they don't really believe it.
    It is very obvious that a belief system based on delusions is harmful when followed. The "Thoughts and prayers" idea is an obvious example, it allows people to do nothing about a problem with a good conscience.
    And as we can see in American society, the delusional mindset is absolutely extremely harmful to American society.

    The cog wheel may be turning, but it is broken so it does damage to itself and the cogwheels it is connected to with every turn it takes.

    The only reason strongly religious people may appear to be functioning, is that for some reason that form of insanity is accepted by the majority, and because of that, so are the harmful effects of it.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    and it's very aithoritarian

    very similar to communism in all respects

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Communism is the antithesis of religion. The former is based on materialism, the latter is idealism incarnate. Soviet republics turned churches into cinemas and warehouses and other cool shit, while capitalist countries were betting more and more on religious propaganda to calm the masses.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    You are absolutely right, USA is extremely authoritarian in many ways, towards children including their own, in all sorts of institutions. It is very much based on the might makes right mentality. The economic thinking is of course different with free market. But the authoritarian mindset is much like Stalinism.

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