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Evolution of Windows (lemmy.ml)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/funny@sh.itjust.works
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[–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Linux is not for everyone. If you don't like it, don't use it. The terminal is used so much because it's often the quickest way of doing things - instructions in WIndows are like "click on that icon, scroll down to this and choose that, then select that tab..." but with a terminal it's like "copy and paste this into a terminal". It's a powerful and useful tool. There are distros like Ubuntu which try to avoid doing terminally stuff, but it's just so useful it's difficult not to use it.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    "The biggest problem of Linux is its culture" immediately confirmed.

    • The terminal isn't the quickest for everyone. It's merely the one with the most concise input pattern
    • "copy and paste it into a terminal" literally means "trust me blindly" when said to anyone but Linux enthusiasts or professionals. Which can have disastruous consequences if the command is old, for the wrong system, malformed or something else.
    • the reason it's difficult to bot use the terminal is due to a lack of configuration GUIs, or lack of mention that they exist. The amount of times people get told to manipulate their /etc/fstab instead of using the safe and very well accessible GUIs most DEs provide is flabbergastingly high.

    The original reply was mostly correct. The problem is the culture. Too many Linux fans and devs either don't understand or don't give a shit about accessibility, and when criticized for that immediately build the impenetrable wall of "it's free so eat what we give you or screw off".

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I don't really know what else to say. Linux is what it is. It isn't perfect, but then again what is? Some people like it, some people don't. No one is forcing anyone to use it, so use it or ignore it. It will always need more effort on the part of the user to get going with it, but some people find this rewarding. Some don't, in which case it's not for them. Accessibility is a real problem, and one which people are working on, but there is no end game with Linux - no inherent need to be used and loved by everyone. It is already far better than it used to be in terms of accessability and it will only get better, but in the meantime, it's not for everyone.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    No one is forcing anyone to use it, so use it or ignore it.

    That's a little bit naive to say in todays' IT landscape. Everyone who wishes to keep their privacy and personal safety - which quite frankly should be everyone - only has the option to run some Linux or BSD for their personal computing.

    It will always need more effort on the part of the user to get going with it

    That's not true, thanks to hardware vendors as well as lots and lots of work of many people. The culture is still a problem though, as it effectively gatekeeps certain settings like Bootloader ("no normal user should ever have to change those") or Service Management ("No normal user is supposed to touch those anyway") behind an enormous skill level most people should not have to reach instead of a GUI people can navigate and understand. Not to mention that many seriously treat CLI commands as universal, something that repeatedly breaks systems of users who're then rightfully pissed off.

    there is no end game with Linux - no inherent need to be used and loved by everyone.

    Again, if there were accessible alternatives that respect and protect the user that would be true, however there are not. The "endgame" (bad word for it) should be to finally reach accessibility-parity with Windows so everyone can actually use it.

    I get what you want to say, but the circumstances we're in don't support your opinion on these things. Arguing like this perpetuates the more often than not rather unwelcoming (as in elitist) nature in the community.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Yes, I do see your point. I think part of the problem is that old farts like myself started with it 3 decades ago, when it really was only for the ultra-nerds. It really was something only enthusiasts would ever consider using, and totally unsuitable for "normal" people. The change into something that can be used by everyone has been slow, but relentless. At some point it will be something that everyone can use, but I really don't think it's there yet. Every year as accessibility improves it moves into the reach of more people, but at the moment you do still need to invest time in converting to it from Windows.

    Which brings me to another point - Linux is not a Free version of Windows. A lot of people seem to think that it should be like Windows, but gnarly old nerds like me like it precisely because it is very different from Windows. This is both its weakness and its strength. I like it because there is less hand-holding than with Windows, but most people probably don't want to use an OS that you can essentially brick with one command on the command line. To me it's power, but to most (normal) people it's danger. There has to be a trade-off between complete control of your PC to the point where you can destroy it, and your PC telling you what you can and can't do to the extent that Windows does.

    I think at some point there will be a distribution that manages to get a balance of freedom and hand-holding that a majority of people find accceptable, but at the moment you do have to put effort and time into not only learning new things, but changing the way you see your PC. If someone complains that it isn't easy enough, the only solution at present is for them to not use it. Is it a good situation? No, but that's the way it is.

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