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Liberals be like (lemmy.ml)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[–] 2 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Idk the Wikipedia definition that I commonly see people use doesn't seem to agree with that. If you throw in fascism, alt-right, all of that under liberalism then the meme of course covers more ground but it can get more confusing to those not using the same definition of liberalism as you seem to use.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (8 children)

    Wikipedia itself (and fwiw commonly others don't either in my experience) doesn't the talked about movements and parties as fitting under that umbrella, since they're conflicting with too much of the basic defining principles. Imo that makes sense, but if you were to use a broader definition or going "if it fits even one part then it counts", then I guess I could see them fitting under it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    It just doesn't seem like the sort of Wikipedia definition and the common interpretation I usually encounter agree with you on this one since the mentioned movements aren't counted. But of course it's not one interpretation to rule them all, just using Wikipedia as representative of the common viewpoint.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    In that it doesn't count those movements as part of liberalism or those parties under that umbrella. It's the reason I posted those lists above.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    Sure and it could be a salient point if it left out a few. It does tell you something when none of the parties in those movements are included though. Even in the articles for those particular ideologies you don't see the claim that they're subsets of liberalism, but a few mentions how they're trying to counter liberal values.

    I don't think it's an accidental omission.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I mean I'm not sure if Wikipedia actually counts MAGA part of the party as liberals. I don't think it does. That's more along the lines of movements I was talking about. European alt-right the same deal.

    But if you're working from a specifically Marxist viewpoint I'm guessing it uses a broader definition that includes those movements.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    I'm not sure it counts at Wikipedia, with how they describe it (they call it "Trumpism")

    comprises ideologies such as right-wing populism, right-wing antiglobalism, national conservatism and neo-nationalism, and features significant illiberal, authoritarian[7][8] and at times autocratic beliefs.[b] Trumpists and Trumpians are terms that refer to individuals exhibiting its characteristics. There is significant academic debate over the prevalence of neo-fascist[a] elements of Trumpism.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I mean the whole point of bringing up Wikipedia was to show a common definition and what sort of movements are counted. If you use wider Marxist definition it covers a lot more, from what I've understood. The common Wikipedia counting doesn't cover as much, so it leaves out some pretty popular movements, in which case the meme just mentioning liberals doesn't make as much sense. But this being on .ml I think using the Marxist definition makes sense

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I think you and Wikipedia disagree here. But that's neither here nor there really. By their counting, there's plenty of non-liberals who would fit the meme. In your view there aren't. So that explains the difference.

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