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Have you seen progressive people be discriminatory either intentionally or unintentionally and if so in what way? (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world
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Edit: I didn't actually think I'd need to put this here but unfortunately I think those kinds of people are here

Bigots are not welcome on my post and they are certainly not welcome on my post to co-opt it to spread bigotry

I am progressive myself and support human rights and LGBTQ+ people

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[–] 27 points 1 year ago (32 children)

i really have never encountered someone like this.

unless the 'purity test' is being anti genocide or pro trans rights. you know, basic fundamental shit.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (29 children)

    Genocide is a term that is both over and under used. There are currently about six genocides ongoing. I don't see the point in trying to call someone out on it because no one is actually doing anything for or against it outside of a very small number of people.

    If someone asks me if I'm anti genocide I assume they mean something they specifically consider a genocide and they are trying to use this as bait to get me to out myself in some way. They don't actually expect I'm personally participating or countering it in any way.

    Trans rights also is a loaded term now because there are a LOT of individual rights Trans people are needing to fight for all in parallel. It's better to be specific.

    Sure someone who says they are against trans people is awful, but I find folks set the bar in different places and use that to start an argument. The easiest example is, what age should someone be allowed to transition which is an intensely challenging question to answer even on a medical level.

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  • [+] 8 points 1 year ago (14 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    you somehow ignored the entire point of his statement, then turned his statement around and basically stated the same thing then attacked him with it

    anyway lol at anyone that would be concerned with the low bar of ‘don’t support genocide’ as a purity test

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    I think there's every right to concern when we take that to the extent of "If you dont let the candidate who's worse for the genocide win and thereby set back every other issue including the trans rights we also purity test over, then you're pro genocide". There's a right way to do that shit and harm reduction is worthwhile

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    You're all making generalities out of assumptions here...

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  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago (9 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Their purity test: You must not deny genocide.

    What you heard their purity test was: They must accept that any and all genocides that I think exist are real and a big problem.

    Again, you fucking morons are inferring things that aren't there just to try and be witty, while utterly missing the point...

    Congratulations on failing your reading comprehension test.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    You've got a bunch of nutjobs that will turn that phrasing into a white genocide conversation is the problem.

    The second part of that is that genocide is a subjective term due to classification of ethnic groups being subjective.

    Honestly this well encapsulates the problem I tend to have aligning on goals with other progressives and some liberals. Every time folks try to simplify something as complex as genocide down to a yes or no question it means they are already invalidating the majority of positions and forcing a conversation of agree with me or call me wrong. That isn't how it works, that isn't how discussion and debate work. Forcing people into Yes/No thinking doesn't lead to progress, asking for people to think critically does.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    If they turn it in to a white genocide problem, then you already have your answer: They don't care about minorities.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    What does minorities have to do with this?

    Armenian's were a majority. The Fur people of Darfur are a majority in their region. Palestinians are a majority.

    Genocide is a method often used in converting a majority to a minority.

    I agree with your endpoint that those people don't care, but I think if you told someone like that that they don't care about minorities I think you would be confirming their thoughts not convincing them away from it.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    No shit. Nowhere did I say you'd convince a bigot with these arguments, especially bigots as committed to the bit as Israelis...

    BTW, if you think Palestinians are a majority in relation to Israel and the other nations involved in that conflict, ESPECIALLY in power, then you are only exemplifying your lack of understanding of how the real world works.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    By world population, whites ARE a minority.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    The easiest example is, what age should someone be allowed to transition which is an intensely challenging question to answer even on a medical level.

    That actually has a really simple answer, the right age is the one that the person and their doctors/medical professionals consider age appropriate for that individual. It isn't up to society to restrict that decision. That is before the fact that medical professionals with direct experience with the person will have the best opinions on the topic.

    This is also true for every single medical decision. Also true for every decision that doesn't directly harm someone else.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (9 children)

    I can't imagine thinking any medical procedure has a simple answer, especially anything that permanently alters you.

    Medical professionals are people, sometimes they make the right choice, sometimes the wrong choice. There are people who shop for the wrong answer, and also people who get the wrong answer and live in suffering. It is important to question things and have a discourse.

    If my 16 year old came to me and asked to have their hearing removed as a solution to their mispohonia and that their therapist agrees and they found a surgeon... I don't think I could just jump on board with that call.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    I'm not convinced you understand what transitioning means. You can start transitioning without any medical intervention, and pretty much every trans person does socially transition before medical treatment because there's really no alternative. When a younger person starts medical treatment, it will consist of puberty blockers. That's it. Fully reversible, no known long-term side-effects, been used for 50 years for cis kids with precocious puberty. Suggesting that's in any way equivalent to someone permanently deafening themselves is pretty disgusting, it's typical terf bullshit and you should really think twice about whatever led you to that opinion.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    The simple answer is that it is nobody's business but the patient and the medical professionals.

    A surgeon would not remove someone's hearing for misophonia. They took an oath to do no harm and the vast, vast majority of medical professionals take that seriously on a personal level before getting into licensing and other requirements to practice.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    The reasonable debate is at what age is that allowed. I do not think that has an easy answer other than legal age of majority for the country you are a citizen of. I think that the problem is there are harder answers than that worth seriously considering.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    This is like saying there needs to be a minimum age for ADHD medications or birth control. Doctors are not giving minors sex changes all willy nilly and the procedures that they do provide like hormone suppression are proven safe, effective, and reversible.

    Why does the general public or politicians need to pick an age for medical care that doesn't involve them and doesn't harm anyone?

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Because I don't think a 2 year old should be given Adderall without a parent knowing?

    I personally am pretty open minded about these things, I was able to get birth control with my partner when I was 15 without her Catholic parents knowing. That was very important, but I recognize that if we were 10 it maybe becomes a different conversation involving parents.

    You might say a parent could be included but you also have cases of divorced parents where one parent is for and another is against and there is a question of if the childs opinions are theirs or their parents. What age should the child be able to make the call? 15? 10? 5?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Because I don't think a 2 year old should be given Adderall without a parent knowing?

    What a totally reasonable and not completely fictional scenario that shows you are discussing in good faith.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    When one divorced parent gets their toddler prescribed Adderall without the other parent being informed. AAP recommends against it for ages 3 (not 2 but 3) to 5 but it is allowed.

    I'm not saying I even have an opinion on this, but I do think if someone said they think 3 is too young to take Adderall I think that doesn't automatically tell me they are anti medicine or a bad person.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Parental involvement in medical decisions is a completely different topic than medical treatment by age.

    The AAP, which STRONGLY recommends against medication has a consensus of medical professionals that medication might be necessary in very specific situations, is the best group of knowledgeable people to make that call. Definitely more qualified than some random person who just looks at numbers and thinks society or politicians would make a better call than medical professionals who use evidence based practices.

    I'm not saying I even have an opinion on this, but I do think if someone said they think 3 is too young to take Adderall I think that doesn't automatically tell me they are anti medicine or a bad person.

    That is an opinion, and saying they less qualified to decide on appropriate ages doesn't mean they are anti-medicine or a bad person unless they try to make laws that keep medical professionals from providing evidence based health care.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    If my 16 year old came to me and asked to have their hearing removed as a solution to their mispohonia and that their therapist agrees and they found a surgeon… I don’t think I could just jump on board with that call.

    Comparing having your ears removed to transitioning is kind of concerning. This parallel makes it seem like you believe being trans is a disability.

    Trans people also do not just one day go and have life-altering surgery. It is a long and arduous process with ups and downs, if you prevented your 16 year old from beginning that process the likelihood is that you will end up with a very resentful and distant adult child in the future.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    You should just be forward with which perceived genocide you don't qualify as a genocide so that people can decide whether there's an validity to what you're saying. Which genocides are we purity testing over that aren't really genocides?

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I need the right to take hormones, but I dont need the right to take my dick to the ladiesz bathroom. Does this make me a Nazi?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    This logic implies that you would be comfortable with an almost-fully transitioned trans male using the female toilets. They are 6'1", well built, bearded and indistinguishable from a cis male, but they still have a vagina and therefore since we are allocating toilets on genitalia, they must use the female toilets.

    No it doesn't make you a Nazi to say what you just said, but I do think you are worrying about things that really are not an issue.

    Stopping trans females from using female toilets does not prevent straight cis men from sneaking inside to do something nefarious -- you know, the demographic that is by far the most likely to sexaully assault someone?

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