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[–] 38 points 1 year ago (20 children)

I don't get the systemd hate. The most common complaint I see is that it's too bloated, but Arch uses it, so what gives? Is it just that people dislike change? Like Wayland hate (not Wayland frustration)?

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Generally I see a few:

    • People wanting the highly deterministic, but slower behavior of the rc scripts.
    • People liking the fact that the rc startup was generally almost entirely defined in plain script files
    • Some folks criticizing certain opinionated things in systemd, as systemd delves deeper into things like capabilities and users.
    • Systemd can sometimes be a bit weird about how it does/does not capture stdout/stderr as one might guess in some situations.
    • Some folks not liking the journald angle of binary-only files

    Mainly the last point is the only one I personally find potentially aggravating, but since I never really am in a broken system without journalctl I'm not too bothered by it. I have saved myself some effort thanks to systemd including stuff that the daemons used to provide for themselves.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago*

    People wanting the highly deterministic, but slower behavior of the rc scripts.

    This is literally it for me. I got to work on an alpine system and it was like a breath of fresh air - I could edit the service script files directly. So easy, so little abstraction

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'm more frustrated with GNOME devs sabotaging Wayland.

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  • [+] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)
  • and all distros jumped into the honeypot

    As a filthy casual this is the most distressing part.

    I’ve observed the situation shift in just a few years from

    β€œWinter Systemd is coming”

    To

    β€œWinter Systemd is here, it’s everywhere, and i hate it”

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    So people hate on systemd because they interpret it as an init system thats gone too far and has thus violated the unix principle. in reality systemd is an entire suite of tools based around a very feature rich and robust service management suite that also includes an init system. there is something to be said about the Linux ecosystem's reliance on systemd, but there are no comparable tools. this is why Arch uses systemd. if you dont want to use systemd, you can use distros like Arco Linux; however currently Gnome no longer works on Arco

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    Part of the problem with it is that it is very difficult not to use it, for instance if your code uses dbus, that makes systemd a dependency and almost all of the tools are like this. Want to use alternate software with systemd init? A-OK! want to use systemd tools without systemd init? Too bad! This inter-dependence is what I think makes it break the unix philosophy, its components dont like to be replaced or used outside of the "intended" environment of systemd init, keeping it from being replaced without breakage on lot of systems.

    On my install for instance, systemd is roped in by xdg-user-dirs (and hence steam), flatpak, fcitx5, and cups. And that is just a few. So the init system isnt a problem to me, the lack of drop-in replacements for its suite of tools is.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I think the biggest problem is that developing each other underlying subsystems without the rest is a hassle. As such no one has come up with a non-systemd dbus replacement. But there is a lot that can be replaced. There are some systemd services i just turn off immediately woth new installs and use something else because they're such dogshit (looking at you resolved).

    god i fucking hate systemd-resolved

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    +1 on systemd-resolved. dumpster fire of horribleness. i dont mind 99% of systemd subsystems, but this one tips me over the edge, hard.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    it pisses me off so much. what do you mean theres no way to set the priority of nameservers or to force them to be resolved in a specific order? no i don't want a public nameserver thats only there as backup to take precedence over my local nameserver thats necessary for kerberos to work!

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