Ask Lemmy

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[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

I mean, there's also the whole issue of the planned site for the state being occupied, and not even wanting to share with the original inhabitants.

Less problematic than Nazism, though? Sure.

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[–] biofaust@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I mean, before starting with Zyclon-B, also the Nazis wanted the Jews to just move to Madagascar.

So I really just see a temporal offset.

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[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

It's not uncommon for ethnic conflicts in general, but there's a lot of extra dimensions in the Nazi case. The Jewish conspiracy that handed WWI to the Entante, and was also behind communism somehow, was always a centerpiece of their whole ideology. And obviously, Nazis didn't just go after Jews. They make up about half of the Holocaust and are dwarfed by random war casualties, often civilian. If they won the plan was to kill a good share of all Slavs and bring back slavery for the rest.

There's nobody more recent I'd say are on the same tier except maybe ISIS.

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[–] biofaust@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

If you want to count official Hamas members as military opponents, civilian casualties in Gaza dwarf the ones of WWII in ratio.

Also, while I am not so knowledgeable about the Zionist mythos, I know that other territories and populations, which Israel already attacked repeatedly, are meant to be subjugated in the larger plan.

I guess we can all agree that getting to see how far they can resemble the nazis is not an itch we should scratch.

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[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If you want to call Gaza an open air concentration camp, you can't really use it for war casualties. If you compare Israeli operations in Syria or Iran with anything the Nazis did, they look pretty good again.

There's plenty of less extreme analogies to use. Rwanda would be more defensible.

I know that other territories and populations, which Israel already attacked repeatedly, are meant to be subjugated in the larger plan.

Religious Zionists want control of all historical Hebrew areas. What they think that is varies wildly within the movement. Subjugation of the entire Middle East or whole Muslim world is where things are going if Israel is never stopped, but nobody's claiming a right to it at this point. Jordan or Sinai are more the ones you hear about as external ambitions.

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[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

In origins section, there were widespread European establishment plans for "solving the Jewish problem" 50 years before Hitler. Hitler's demonization of Jews was based on WW1 German Zionist treason of Germany with US/UK lobbying to join war, and Communist movement figureheads. What was anti-Jewish sentiment in Europe based on in the 1870s?

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[–] biofaust@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago

I mean, Jews were prohibited from having most reputable high jobs and the only thing that matched the Torah and was allowed in Christian (maybe later Catholic) Europe was money lending.

In Rome, my parents' generation still calls stingy people "giudío" meaning Jew, since of course they were bound to be more attached to money and less prone to charity than most.

From having that reputation and managing lots of debt, to having the finger pointed at, it's an easy quick step.

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[–] kreskin@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

depends entirely on how you see the concept of zionism. If you limit it to jews thinking they need a homeland, fine. It you think it means they need a homeland and it needs to be where a bunch of people already live now, then thats clearly a huge problem. Ben Gurion said it had to be on the site of the old kingdom, and the people there needed to be driven out. Thats ethnic cleansing and it has led to genocide and untold oppression and crimes against humanity. Its currently worse than the nazis because the rank and file israelis know exactly the severity of crimes going on in their name, which was not the case for nazi germany.