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Goat and PugJesus take on DB0 ADMINS (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 year ago by Canyon201@lemmy.world to c/fediverselore@lemmy.ca

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[+] PugJesus@lemmy.world -11 points 1 year ago* (26 children)

Believe it or not, passing your online purity tests about geopolitics is not what makes someone an anarchist.

Yes, it is quite apparently that you regard playing apologist for fascist states performing genocide as completely in-line with anarchism, bizarre as it is. I guess 'purity testing' is 'questioning whether simping for fascism is really compatible with anarchist thought', especially considering that you openly support .ml's removal of anything critical of fascist states.

Your use of ‘tankie’ is just ‘disagrees with me from the left’ and it’s been on full display.

Ah, so defending genocide is a leftist position now. It must be the People's Genocide.

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[+] Diva@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (25 children)

[deleted]

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 year ago* (21 children)

Dude explicitly doesn't want to build anything outside the ballot box. In fact, he considers any alternative than capitalist liberal democracy as "fascism" and would support even violent paramilitary suppression of such. No matter what it is.

He clearly has the Fukuyama brainworms.

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[+] PugJesus@lemmy.world -10 points 1 year ago* (20 children)

Dude explicitly doesn’t want to build anything outside the ballot box.

I've explicitly said otherwise, and in conversations with you, no less. But don't let that stop your attempt to pretend that supporting genocide is somehow justified because "A DemSoc I called a lib was mean to me :'("

In fact, he considers any alternative than capitalist liberal democracy as “fascism” and would support even violent paramilitary suppression of such.

lmao

Because I regard elections as preferable to a coup explicitly along Bolshevik lines? Bolshevik lines being, in the case that we discussed, quite literally the dissolution of a leftist democratic government the year before?

Nothing like supporting the Vanguard Party suppressing democratic elections to really be a good anarchist, huh?

Astounding that you prefer the taste of boot leather to the horrible position of opposing genocide.

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago (19 children)

I've explicitly said otherwise, and in conversations with you, no less. But don't let that stop your attempt to pretend that supporting genocide is somehow justified because "A DemSoc I called a lib was mean to me :'("

Lol ye I already saw your opinion on what you would support if an actual alternative outside the ballot existed. You'd go full fash :D

Nothing like supporting the Vanguard Party suppressing democratic elections to really be a good anarchist, huh?

The democratic elections that ultimately brought about Hitler. Sure, one of us definitelly supports a path that leads directly to fascism.

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[+] PugJesus@lemmy.world -7 points 1 year ago (18 children)

Lol ye I already saw your opinion on what you would support if an actual alternative outside the ballot existed. You’d go full fash :D

... the "actual alternative outside the ballot" being proposed was a literal fucking coup explicitly along the lines of the ideology that had overthrown a democratically elected leftist government the year before.

"If you don't support fascism with red paint, you're the real fascist!"

And you wonder why I call you a tankie apologist.

The democratic elections that ultimately brought about Hitler. Sure, one of us definitelly supports a path that leads directly to fascism.

The dissolution of the united front brought down the left coalition in Weimar Germany, which brought about Hitler. The KPD, whose boots your are insistently licking, withdrew from the united front, at the behest of Stalin.

But tell me more about how your proposed fascist coup would have stopped fascism!

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 year ago (17 children)

I'm sure the paramilitary murders from the SPD had nothing to do with that.

It's also fascinating how everything outside of capitalist liberal democracy is "fascist" to you now. Literally zero understanding of fascism. You sound like that meme from the Venezuelan diplomat.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (16 children)

I’m sure the paramilitary murders from the SPD had nothing to do with that.

You think Stalin ordered the KPD to stop cooperating with leftist parties in Weimar Germany because the SPD stopped a coup attempt a decade earlier?

Comrade Stalin, just looking out for the moral purity of his German comrades, huh?

It’s also fascinating how everything outside of capitalist liberal democracy is “fascist” to you now. Literally zero understanding of fascism. You sound like that meme from the Venezuelan diplomat.

... an attempt to implement a totalitarian authoritarian state based on military force and imposing the will of a small party on a wider population under the justification that the will of the minority knows best is generally pretty close to fascism, yes.

I suspect few anarchists would agree with simping for that, but hey, you've certainly proved you're not like other anarchists. Very far from them, in fact!

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago* (15 children)

Given that you've literally painted every anarchist you've interacted in lemmy as "fascist" and "tankie", it seems that we're all more closer ideologically to each other than you claim. But you're probably confusing us with the ideal "anarchist" in your head, who happens to sound something like Pugjesus apparently :D

For you, much like the tankies you paint us as, a good Anarchist is the one who acts like you want them to act.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago (14 children)

Given that you’ve literally painted every anarchist you’ve interacted in lemmy as “fascist” and “tankie”,

Fucking what?

But you’re probably confusing us with the ideal anarchist in your head, who happens to sound something like Pugjesus apparently :D

No? The ideal anarchist sounds nothing like me. I speak to anarchists on here all the fucking time - but I guess you only understand your own narrow social circle, wherein anarchy is somehow compatible with Holodomor denial and Uyghur genocide.

You'll do anything to simp for fascist hierarchies, I guess.

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 year ago (13 children)

Fucking what?

you’ve literally painted every anarchist you’ve interacted in lemmy as “fascist” and “tankie”,

I speak to anarchists on here all the fucking time

Name one.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago (12 children)

you’ve literally painted every anarchist you’ve interacted in lemmy as “fascist” and “tankie”,

lmao

Name one.

Rockerface. Was that supposed to be some kind of gotcha? You could've at least said "Name ten" and made me think for a few moments.

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 year ago* (11 children)

Lol, every anarchist in the anarchist instance is a "tankie" and "fascist" a, but the one person (you claim is an anarchist) that hangs out with goat all the time, is one. Figures.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Lol, every anarchist in the anarchist instance is a tankie

What?

but the one person (you claim is an anarchist) that hangs out with goat all the time, is gone. Figures.

Fucking what.

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 year ago* (9 children)

Your first example of an "anarchist you talk to all the time" is a person who became an anarchist less than a year ago and hangs out in MOG all the time. Every anarchist with years of experience, you've labeled as a "tankie" and a "fascist". You're an unmitigated joke, mate.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (8 children)

Your first example of an “anarchist you talk to all the time” is a person who became an anarchist less than a year ago.

So now it's not

but the one person (you claim is an anarchist) that hangs out with goat all the time, is gone. Figures.

It's that they 'just became' an anarchist.

I can name other anarchists I talk to regularly, but it's clear from your about-face here that you don't actually give a fuck about any of your claims, you just want to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.

Every anarchist with years of experience, you’ve labeled as a “tankie” and a “fascist”.

lmao

"No TRUE Scotsman"

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

So now it's not

Not what I said, but of course you're incapable of acting in good faith even for a second.

It's that they 'just became' an anarchist.

I can name other anarchists I talk to regularly, but it's clear from your about-face here that you don't actually give a fuck about any of your claims, you just want to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks.

No, it's ok. Your first example proved everything I wanted it to prove for anyone still paying attention to you. It's clear anarchists are just a useful tool to you, to be discarded when they don't serve your purpose, much like they are for the tankies.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Not what I said, but of course you’re incapable of acting in good faith even for a second.

but the one person (you claim is an anarchist) that hangs out with goat all the time, is gone. Figures.

Is a literal and direct quote. Holy fuck. Are you this detached from reality?

No, it’s ok. Your first example proved everything I wanted it to prove for anyone still paying attention to you. It’s clear anarchists are just a useful tool to you, to be discarded when they don’t serve your purpose, much like they are for the tankies.

You literally discarded the example of an anarchist I gave to you when asked because they didn't fit your preconception of what an anarchist is - namely, someone who's okay with Holodomor denial, like you are.

Your projection is top-notch, as always.

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

Is a literal and direct quote. Holy fuck. Are you this detached from reality?

Did I deny they're an anarchist? I said you claimed it, because I didn't know this person. Then I checked and adjusted my statements. Any more uncharitable shit you have to throw?

You literally discarded the example of an anarchist I gave to you when asked because they didn't fit your preconception of what an anarchist is

EDIT:

"No TRUE Scotsman"

This doesn't argue the way you think it argues. But it is very funny.

"Every principled anarchist with years of experience in the movement is a tankie and a fascist, but this baby anarchist right here that happens to agree with me, is the true anarchist!"

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Did I deny they’re an anarchist?

but the one person (you claim is an anarchist) that hangs out with goat all the time, is gone. Figures.

"I didn't say it, I implied it."

So THAT'S what a weasel sounds like! I always wondered.

Then I checked and adjusted my statements.

By 'adjusted' you mean 'rejected them as irrelevant'

But according to you, that's not 'discarded', because you lack a basic understanding of the English language or any of the words you use. That, presumably, is why you think anarchism means supporting genocide and fasicsm.

This doesn’t argue the way you think it argues.

Oh, how ironic.

No True Scotsman is about refining a claim ex post facto after its been disproven. From "No Scotsman" to "No TRUE Scotsman"

Or here, "No anarchist" to "No EXPERIENCED anarchist". Not that that's true either, but it shows where your mindset is.

Sorry that your understanding of logical fallacies is as meagre as your understanding of history, politics, and the English language itself.

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

"I didn't say it, I implied it."

That's your uncharitable reading, not what I wrote.

By 'adjusted' you mean 'rejected them as irrelevant'

Also not what I did or said. But do feel free to uncharitably read what you want out of my sentences, nothing I say seems to stop you from that practice.

Or here, "No anarchist" to "No EXPERIENCED anarchist"

No mate, I didn't reject inexperienced anarchists from anarchism. I merely pointed that it just so happens that you label experienced anarchists as tankies and keep the inexperienced ones who happen to agree with you as examples of the good ones. People can make their own conclusions from that.

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[+] PugJesus@lemmy.world -6 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

That’s your uncharitable reading, not what I wrote.

Sorry that you find a basic reading of what you wrote to be 'uncharitable', I understand it's tied up with your own struggles with basic English.

Also not what I did or said.

This you, fascist?

but the one person (you claim is an anarchist) that hangs out with goat all the time, is gone. Figures.

No mate, I didn’t reject inexperienced anarchists from anarchism. I merely pointed that it just so happens that you label experienced anarchists as tankies and keep the inexperienced ones who happen to agree with you as examples of the good ones. People can make their own conclusions from that.

You asked me to name a single anarchist I talked to. I did so. You then rejected them as irrelevant, and then denied that rejecting them as irrelevant was 'discarding' them in context. Sorry that you didn't understand your own request? Like, holy fuck. Do you work at being this bad at basic communication, or does it just come naturally once you start simping for fascists and playing apologist for genocide?

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

disengage

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[+] PugJesus@lemmy.world -8 points 1 year ago*

Why? Because you think that you shouldn't be called out for supporting Holodomor denial, making not just bad faith arguments, but shitty and easily disproven bad faith arguments (I note that you didn't actually understand the refutation of your claim about No True Scotsman, instead trying to link it to identity instead of the refinement of a disproven argument's claim), and simping for fascist coup attempts as some bizarre form of anarchism against revisionist neolibs like Rosa Luxemburg?

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[+] PugJesus@lemmy.world -9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Wild how every argument with you speedruns straight to hyper-fixating on what Americas enemies are doing.

The argument here is literally about the Uyghur genocide, but nice try to whataboutism it around to your Americentric obsession.

I would never play apologist for the fascist states of America and their genocidal war on the Palestinian people, You were the one spending all your energy browbeating everyone expressing disgust with genocide Joe and bomber Harris.

I love how here you completely avoid the accusation in favor of whataboutism.

America is going down a very fascist path and supporting Israel's genocide of Palestine. Sadly, you think that somehow justifies playing apologist for China going down a fascist path and genociding Uyghurs, or the genocide of Ukrainians.

I guess it's GOOD genocide, unlike Israel's BAD genocide!

Funny hearing lectures on “what anarchism is” from a social democrat who’s more interested in purity testing leftists on lemmy than building anything outside the ballot box.

Building parallel systems is something that I've repeatedly praised on here, but I understand that that's inconvenient to your interest in attempting to paint me as trying to 'purity test' by insisting that genocide and fascism is Bad, Actually.

Keep licking boots, fascist, it's all you're capable of, apparently.

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[+] Diva@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

[deleted]

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[+] PugJesus@lemmy.world -8 points 1 year ago*

I’m opposed to all states, I’m stuck in the US so I oppose its genocidal warmongering 😎

Yet you consistently defend other genocidal warmongering states, what a curious form of opposition! Bootlicking Nazis, but saying it's okay because you oppose Italian fascists - what a principled individual you are!

Oh, no, wait, you're just a bootlicking fascist who plays apologist for genocide if they wear the right 'team colors'.

It's also cute that this comes in response to being called out for your Americentrism. Everything revolves around the US to you. Rather typical product of the American school system, ironically. Internalized all the lessons, just swapped the team colors. Instead of opposition to genocide, all you understand is opposition to one flag or another.

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