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Splitting Eastern Europe with the Nazis, and only joining the Allied side in '41! (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/historymemes@lemmy.world
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[–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I'm trying to figure out what your basis can be for the claim then - if you don't know of an example of fascism being defeated, why are you so quick to rule out "fighting them"?

I hasten to add that I'm not saying WWII was a successful example, but let's be frank about the quality of our assertions.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I think you are caught up in romanticizing violence as a solution to problems. Violence creates new problems, it doesn't solve them. Also, violent pushback is exactly what fascism craves. It is like giving fascist what they want.

    Fascism really can't exist without dealing with dissent violently. It is one of the things that makes them fascist. The founding fathers of the US murdered, committed arson against, and bombed colonist dissenters in violent suppression which was integral to their goal and ultimately lead to complete control.

    I think another important thing to consider is the mindset of the person advocating violence. Obviously no one is saying to not defend yourself, but committing to violent acts to motivate change is rarely successful by itself. Having a violent element can certainly help with negotiations, but once violence is used it no longer is a bargaining chip.

    A lot of people I talk to have the mindset that their ideology will rise up after they have burned down the system. So when the dust settles, so to speak, their "superior" beliefs will magically rise to the top.

    I think this goes along with other flawed thinking like the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun. This belays the fact that there is no good guy and the ones that murder people are also the only one left to write about the account. This is often phrased as the victor writes the history.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    All of that makes sense. As long as there's room for the basic necessity of defending oneself, it feels like there's less daylight between our viewpoints than you're imagining - at least in practical terms. It becomes a matter of how best to defend against fascism.

    For my part the strategy has been to build a new life as far away from the US as feasible. The work has not been easy and the solutions have not been ideal, but I feel it does have the moral purity you were hoping to convince me of.

    I feel privileged to have the option not to do any actual fighting, yet, but a part of me cannot help but wonder what hope we have as a species if you're right - can enough of us be wise, gentle, brave, and resilient enough for a true and lasting peace to take hold? We live in strange times but that might be the strangest thing of all, if I lived to see it.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Defending yourself is a natural right for sure. Not really sure how close our viewpoints are, but I would gather we are more alike than different.

    I think getting away from the US is reasonable if that is what you choose to do. God knows I have wanted to leave it many times in my lifetime!

    The battle for the human mind will continue as always. The best defense is critical thought.

    As far as everyone else? Well, the world has gotten a lot better for a lot of people. Billions more have access to fresh water and electricity. War is down and so is crime across the board in all countries.

    Things aren't that bad and perhaps that is what ideologically many people can't handle. There is no doubt the US is the biggest and most powerful fascist nation ever. It is not a new thing either.

    Knowing this can help inform your decisions and save yourself from being confused why your country does what it does. I will join you in hoping for the best. Strange times indeed.

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