If it’s your first offered dev job, take it without thinking, take all you can from it, and flip this into another dev job in about 6-months to 1-year

You’ll have a better idea than any of us here and sometimes you just have to trust your instincts.

There’s also the added benefit of being able to say you’ve worked in both standard corporate as well as startup environments which is good experience to have regardless if the business is a success or not.

I hope it works out awesomely for you!

I'm currently working for a company that has been slowing dying for the past two years annd it sucks. I am fearful that this could happen here as well, but I don't get those vibes now. They are selling products and they have actial clients. Even as I was interviewing there, people were working int he warehouse to get products shipped.

I think there are some industry veterans in this business. One of them learned to code, to get the website and the infrastructure going and is now doing it with AI.

I think you make good points,but I also think that this business is actually concerned about those points. So all in all I think it might be a good place to work than.

Most startups die and in their race to get to market, typically accrue heavy technical debt.

Unless you’re at a startup founded by industry or academic veterans, you likely won’t learn much more than how work long hours to ship a minimum viable product that looks good on the outside but is incredibly poorly built, cost ineffective, resource inefficient, and lacks decent security.

If a startup is full of veterans, it can be a magical, close knit environment to learn by osmosis and make incredible connections.

But I don’t get that vibe from this company based on what you’ve said.

For first job experience it’s great.

Yup, chaos. But no/less stupid red tape to get things done.

Misery is at any job and more about your coworkers and management.

A couple of negatives I’m gleaming from your comments:

Yes. The most senior having 3 years is a bit of a flag. But it kind of depends on what they got for a seed round.

RE: tutor/text/valuable experience. I might shelve that a bit. Speccing, building, delivering, supporting is a bit of a beast from what I might guess is an academic basis.

You actually seeking out a more enterprise company with Seniors might point to you preferring that kind of structured environment.

Ultimately it doesn’t matter - if you want to get into SWE take what you can get for experience. Enterprise is unlikely to touch you without some.

I have been following along with "summer of ccna" by Jeremy Cioara and (a little bit) Chuck Keith. I can highly recommend it, especially since it is free (for now). I have learned a lot about various networking protocol, like IP, TCP, VLAN, DHCP, and those are just the big ones. The course is mostly video's where Jeremy explains and than you get to work it out in Packet Tracer. I think this approach is a lot more fun than Cisco's. At least, I'm doing it for fun (I don't plan to become a network engineer, only a swe). If you do want to use this to get Cisco certifie, I think that is a good choice and worth the money in that case.

https://academy.networkchuck.com/course/free-summer-of-ccna

yeah in the early 90's I had a classmate debating if they should be a math or cs major as cs seemed played out.

so a few things. A cs degree is like a high level logic degree to pardon the pun. some degree. you can mention that to them. like it should have both an elementary and advanced logic class in most programs I know of. If that is not enough maybe think about getting a math degree and cs minor which should be about just as good. If that still is not enough for them try math with secondary ed cert and cs minor. if they don't like that then ask them wtf they want you majoring in???

AI-hater here arriving late to the thread, who is specifically waiting out the market in a different job in a different industry I enjoy, because of the tech industry making you use AI to do the things I would have enjoyed doing myself. Appreciate the good advice, especially since your perspective is the total opposite of mine so I can probably trust it's grounded, not just my confirmation bias wanting to see "AI bad" in as many places as possible.

Like this York one I found looks perfect, but I’m not sure.

Neither am I, but it looks like it costs money and takes a lot of time. It might be right for you, but here's something you can do starting today: learn to fire up Virtual Machines and network them together. When I first started using virtual machines getting networks to and between them connected was a chore, but I could tell you everything about them. The last time I tried was with Virtual Machine Manager on Rocky, and it was networked out of the box. I should look into why that "just worked."

To add to your confusion:

• https://www.comptia.org/en-us/certifications/network/
• https://gns3.com/

Tech is not doing great right now but there is no way where it will go in the future. I mean anything where you can be a manager at minimum wage. Thats not good.

I've legit thought about this. But starting in an entirely different field is daunting.

That's what I was thinking too. Thanks for the help.

Get your plumbing accreditation and install datacentres. (/¯ ಠ_ಠ)/¯

Cyber security is probably your best bet, especially if you think the rest of a comp sci degree is beyond you. I have the same gut feeling about it, it's slightly more secure than some other sectors.

Right now is probably the worst time practically ever to get into tech, so don't feel like it's you, it's not.

Testing isn't a strictly manual process. You may be writing auto tests, you may be writing tools, you may be branching out into general uptime maintenance. You may even be programming features. All that's gonna depend on what orgs you join and what you are prepared to bring to the table.

Also worth considering the impact on AI in the field. Some orgs are gonna nix QA entirely and rely on AI to generate tests. Others are gonna move more toward TDD with AI using the manually created tests as a guide for the development of features. Still others are just gonna want some assurance that the AI puked up slop that kinda works.

I'm currently a SWE, but I know several people (many who make more than me) who've successfully pivoted into SDET roles and love what they do.

I don't really know Germany specific law but here's some things to consider.

• remote is worth at least 3k in salary over a hybrid or in person role.
• switching jobs is the best leverage you have for an increased salary as it affects future raises as well.
• startups tend to have increased overtime expectations.
• startups have an increased likelihood you are involuntarily looking for a job in 3-5 years, it's much easier to find a job when you already have one.
• startups tend to offer stock as part of compensation, this is basically a lottery ticket, but you need to understand how it works if you're planning on working at one.
• once you are tired of the bullshit at a place it's time to move on to different bullshit that you aren't tired of yet. There isn't a perfect job.
• going back can be an option, sometimes it works out better.

American here so I'm wildly out of touch with how jobs work in Germany, but if they can't afford you full time I like your idea of 35 hours a week. Work less so they spend less overall but they still have you for a good amount of time each week

1. They absolutely can fire you in Germany after the Probezeit in Germany. Don't ask me how I know.
2. Leave your current company. You know it's time.
3. Do not settle for less than what you think you are worth. Every (future) employer will try to screw you. If they were really trying to save money, they'd be hiring for remote work in Romania or India.

You should work for the company. You'll be happier, and worst case, you can always just sell out later and get paid more.

First of all there is no such thing as "job security" in the modern capitalist system, so that should nor really be a factor in your decision.

Yes, shares or options are often used as additional compensation for non "C-level" staff by scrappy start-ups when they don't have the cash flow to pay market-rate salaries. Fewer than 1 in 10 of those start-ups will ever do well enough for that compensation to pay out. If you believe in the mission, you may find that risk worth it.

There are almost no companies anywhere that aren't shoving AI down everyone's throats. You cannot avoid that right now. Instead ask about their strategy and try to find companies that are more rational sounding. There are a few good uses cases for the tech if managed by thoughtful and intentional strategists. However most companies are approaching it like your current one, which is just slop.

Of you like the people. I say, take a chance. If it doesn't work out, try again. I spent over 10 years of my career hopping through startups before learning enough about myself and my goals and how the industry works to find the right fit.

What happens to those people once the AI is finished?

Same thing that will happen whenever we finish the automobile.

Yet, manufacturers keep making new and various automobiles every single year so... hope you see where Im going with that.

Right, so one person can handle the workload of what 3 people (for example) used to do. Therefore AI just took those other two people’s jobs.

Read the rest of my post before hitting the reply button, as I explicitly called this out and addressed it.

I was pursuing computer science back in 2003 in community college. I walked away from it for a few reasons. First it looked like programming jobs would all be outsourced to India. Second, several notable viruses were programmed by teenagers (MSBlast), and Google was hiring people without degrees. It just seemed like my four year degree would not land me a job - I needed to be gifted in ways I already wasn’t.

Obviously, all of that was wrong. I could have made a killing if I stayed with it, especially since I live in proximity to Silicon Valley. But I will never know. I could have been miserable and bouncing between tech bro Web 3.0 startups.

I don’t have the exact quote in front of me but at the beginning or end of Learn Python the Hard Way, Zed Shaw talks about how in technology industries, skilled programmers are a dime a dozen, but in any other industry those who can leverage programming are adept tech ninja gods who are well respected and valued. I have found that to be true in my experience for what it’s worth. I still enjoy programming and it sets me apart from many of my peers. If I was programming 40+ hours per week I’m not sure I would enjoy it. In other words: it’s not about the tool but what you do with it that matters.

Your parents may or may not be correct. But it wouldn’t hurt for you to expand your horizons. Nobody can take programming away from you. Maybe you’ll work on new 3d printers or drones or mechanical engineering or some other interest that you haven’t yet found.

Sure, but the path of college->career is much easier to take when you're a young kid straight out of high school. Everyone I knew who "took a gap year" only ever managed to complete an associates degree (and way later), whereas most people who went straight to college did a full bachelors in the typical 4 years. Many (not all ofc) even did internships and had job offers while in their final year.

Student loans are predatory, but even though I don't have any data to back it up, I do think they're worth it if you actually finish your degree. The main mistake is to go to one of those expensive private schools. Even with rich parents paying it all, those are a rip off. The only value is networking potential (since most students have rich parents too), but the value of that tends to be overstated IMO

I would say, if its something you are passionate about and relatively good at then its a good path for you. The people who get into CS just for the money and job opportunities won't be the ones to last in a shrinking market.

Also. What you study in college does not have to be what you do for a job or do forever. The purpose of college is to get a well rounded education not simply career training.

So you could get a degree in CS and end up working in something completely unrelated. Or you could get a degree in History, and keep learning CS for fun and end up working in CS for the rest of your life.