What if Our Ancestors Didn’t Feel Anything Like We Do?

The historians who want to know how our ancestors experienced love, anger, fear, and sorrow

By Gal Beckerman

The historian Rob Boddice sat cross-legged on his couch in Montreal on a frigid day last winter and conjured for me the image of a medieval carpenter, hammering away in his workshop. “Imagine this guy; he’s building a table,” he said. Suddenly the carpenter misses the nail and bangs his thumb instead. “What did that feel like for him?” Boddice asked. I stared for a few seconds while Boddice smiled encouragingly, as if he’d just asked me to solve a quadratic equation in my head. “I guess it probably stung, and then his thumb throbbed?” I ventured, remembering actually banging my own thumb a few weeks back while assembling an IKEA desk. Boddice nodded, then said, “Let me ask you again. What did it feel like for him?”

Boddice is an energetic 48-year-old academic who has stormed the field of the history of emotions and senses, a specialized branch that has grown significantly over the past two decades even as most others (such as military and medieval history) have been pruned. Working for the past few years out of an institute he helped found—the Centre of Excellence in the History of Experiences, colloquially known as HEX, housed at Tampere University, in Finland—Boddice has tried to steer this area of study in a radical direction. “Emotions and senses” refers to history focused less on the facts of the past than on its more ineffable qualities, such as the smells of a 19th-century city filled with thousands of horses, and the quality of grief expressed in the letters of widows during World War I. Boddice is interested in a deeper, more expansive concept that encompasses everything about how reality is perceived, melding together emotions and senses and much else into an engagement with “experience.”

For starters, he has little patience for the standard (and impoverished, if you ask him) assumptions about feelings, such as the idea that they come in six basic universal flavors—happiness, sadness, fear, anger, surprise, and disgust. In the 1960s and ’70s, the psychologist Paul Ekman identified these six emotions, which he thought were hardwired into every human. This perception is still fairly embedded in our culture. Just consider the success of Pixar’s Inside Out, Boddice suggests, which anthropomorphized some of these distinct sentiments as cartoon characters (anger, for example, is squat and red, and has a head that ignites like a furnace) pulling levers behind a console inside our minds. Much of the social-skills curricula for elementary-school children are built around the same idea: choose from a list of prepackaged emoji ranging from smiley to frowny. There is nothing unusual about a desire to distill and name emotions in this way. For one thing, it might be the source of empathy. Having a shared “happy” that refers to what you are feeling and what I am feeling seems essential to relationships, and probably also to building any kind of human society.

But as a historian trying to comprehend feelings, Boddice can’t stand those cute Inside Out characters. Because not only do we imagine other people to have the exact same set of emotions that we have, but we project this thought backwards through time. Love for us can’t be that different from what it meant to Heloise and Abelard writing letters to each other in the 12th century. The laborers who hauled stones to build the pyramids in Giza felt anger that is our anger. We perform this projection on any number of human experiences: losing a child, falling ill, being bored at work. We assume that emotions in the past are accessible because we assume that at their core, people in the past were just like us, with slight tweaks for their choice of hats and standards of personal hygiene.

Boddice starts with the opposite premise, that we are not the same—that the experience of being human in another era, with all of its component feelings and perceptions, even including something as elemental as pain, is so foreign to us as to live inside a kind of sealed vault. “There is nothing about my humanness that affords me insight into humanity,” Boddice has said. Rather than being a constant—extending across space and time—human nature for Boddice is a variable and unstable category, one with infinite possible shades.

“Down with empathy,” Boddice said when we met in Montreal, the snow falling outside the window in Mount Royal Park. “I want a T-shirt with that on it.” Boddice has a slim build and a rangy restlessness. His face is boyish despite the crow’s-feet beginning to splay out from the corners of his eyes. He’s eager to show that he has a life beyond writing books—a guitar collection (including a Fender Telecaster and a Gibson Les Paul) rested on stands in an otherwise spare living room, and he wore a marathoner’s bulky running watch. When he is not in Finland, he lives in Montreal with his wife, Stephanie Olsen, also a researcher at HEX (she has studied children’s dream narratives), and their 8-year-old son.

The idea of “experiential relativity,” as Boddice calls it—a recent paper also referred to his approach as “historical neurodiversity”—might seem squishy and postmodern. It’s a kind of thinking that questions whether anything is real—the sort of speculation that might emerge from a dorm room late at night. The reaction is understandable. But Boddice is interested in some very real things: the brain and the body, and the way they interact with culture to produce experience. His approach reminded me of the philosopher William James, who also didn’t believe that human emotions are “sacramental or eternally fixed,” as he wrote in his 1890 book, The Principles of Psychology. Whereas the prevailing thought was that an internal feeling generates outward response—I’m sad, therefore I cry—James thought the causality was all wrong. In his schema, what happens first is an external stimulus. This triggers a bodily response, and only then does an internal process of interpretation assign meaning to that response. I might see a sunset and find tears springing to my eyes, and then my mind will interpret this as missing my father, with whom I last witnessed a sunset. Because of this variability of response and interpretation, James wrote, “there is no limit to the number of possible different emotions which may exist, and why the emotions of different individuals may vary indefinitely.”

Read: Science’s struggle to define emotions

Unlike James, who was simply intuiting what happens inside our heads, Boddice is layering his own thinking on top of the most recent advances in neuroscience, which have proved just how plastic our minds really are, in much the way James assumed. How a particular brain assigns meaning has to do with a person’s prior experiences—what Lisa Feldman Barrett, the director of the Interdisciplinary Affective Science Laboratory at Northeastern University and the author of How Emotions Are Made, calls its “concepts and categories.” The brain, Barrett told me, is trapped in the skull, “a dark, silent box,” so it has to make predictions by drawing on those concepts and categories, which are “very, very different by culture—even the concept of what an emotion is varies by culture.” This helps the brain predict and hone its perceptions, and these are very much related to concepts tied to a time and place. The process all leads to what the behavioral neurologist Marsel Mesulam has called our “highly edited subjective version of the world.” In other words, there is no spot in our heads where a Platonic (or emoji) version of sadness or happiness resides. Feelings are not determined; they are created. And this is true for even something as seemingly universal as pain.

Let’s return to that medieval carpenter. He has banged his thumb, triggering his nociceptors, or pain receptors—which should really be called “harm receptors,” Boddice said, because all they do is send a signal up to the brain that damage has occurred. They don’t themselves cause pain. To understand what the carpenter experiences, then, we need to begin with a series of questions that might help us reconstruct the meaning produced once the signal reaches its destination. Does this happen a lot? Is the sensation of hitting his thumb a daily or weekly occurrence—something that goes with the job? And then, if religion infused every second of his life, as might very well be true for a medieval carpenter, where would his concept of suffering come from? Does he think about Christ and perhaps feel purified? If suffering, sin, and love are conjoined in an idea of the divine in the carpenter’s brain, and these are “lived connections,” Boddice said, “and you’re surrounded by them,” how might he feel when that hammer hits his thumb?

It no longer seems so simple as just saying “pain.” We cannot put the carpenter in an MRI machine—we will never have total access to his feelings—but by building out his world in all of its dimensions, Boddice believes, we can get closer to appreciating the specificity of those feelings. This points to another radical element of Boddice’s thinking: To re-create an experience, you need to know all of the conditions that may have led the brain to originally create it, and this means bringing dozens of different academic disciplines to bear on the task, getting fields that don’t usually mingle to interact with one another.

Art history might give insight into what visual representations a person might have been surrounded by; the study of theology might help establish an ideological framework for how they understood their place in the universe; archaeology might reveal what their relationship was like to their material environment. This is the kind of imaginative work that historical novelists usually do, except Boddice wants to scrape the archives to build out a 360-degree understanding based on historical fact. If you know anything about how narrow the categories of academia can be, you can probably see why this is a little dreamy on his part, but it’s also how, he thinks, we can fully unlock the great diversity of ways in which people once moved through reality.

Pain has a particular interest for Boddice, and was the subject of his 2023 book, Knowing Pain, which he opened with his own experience of having a herniated disc when he was 17 (and his encounter with a physical therapist who kept pressing her thumbs into his neck and demanding, “Is that your pain?”). At first, it seems counterintuitive to think of pain as anything other than universal—the same everywhere, and at all times. Yet anyone who has ever been asked to describe their pain to a doctor knows that we are at the mercy of language. Is it sharp or dull? Does it pound or burn? These are metaphors, and ones that culture gives us.

There was a time in the Western world, just a few hundred years ago, when if you weren’t feeling well, you assumed that one of the four humors in your body—blood, yellow bile, black bile, or phlegm—was out of whack. You might then say, as the 18th-century poet Thomas Gray did, that your pains were “wandering” throughout your “constitution” until “they may fix into the Gout.” One of Boddice’s HEX colleagues, Jenni Kuuliala, wrote about a Tuscan friar, Giovanni Bronsius, who in the fall of 1597 ate a plate of macaroni, soon felt sick, and knew that a witch had poisoned him. When it came to witchcraft, Kuuliala told me, people described a bubbling sensation in the body, a certain restlessness. The friar used these words too, adding other details. (His teeth felt “empty.”) Hildegard of Bingen, a 12th-century German Benedictine abbess, talked of the intense divine visions she was having. They appeared to her as blinding auras—a “reflection of the living Light,” she called them, something “far, far brighter than a cloud which carries the sun.” Modern scholars have assumed she was having migraines. But Boddice doesn’t accept this reasoning. “I don’t want to explain religious visions away.”

We could translate each of these experiences into the word pain. But that would conflate what Boddice insists are the unique feelings that the brain in each of these historical moments produced. In a manifesto of sorts—Emotion, Sense, Experience, co-written in 2020 with Mark Smith, a University of South Carolina historian—Boddice makes his claim with the gusto and certainty of a Silicon Valley entrepreneur: “What we propose is a disruption of what it is and means to be human.”

This is the kind of provocative statement to which Boddice is prone, and his work can induce a sense of vertigo. To unmoor people from any sense of common humanity means undermining most of the political philosophies and laws that govern our world. If we abandon our sense of shared humanness with people who lived in the past, what does that mean for other people who live in different cultural contexts today—in a village in China, or just on the other side of the same city?

And yet the notion that the same inputs may create divergent experiences has some gut-level validity to it—think of how the feeling of being an American changes today whether you are wearing blue or red lenses. And then there are the dizzying advances in AI, which make Boddice’s question—what does it even mean to be human?—one that we all face as never before.

Rob Boddice was born in 1977 in a mining community near the bleak industrial English town of Burton-on-Trent. From his home, he could see a deep coal mine, Cadley Hill, which was shut down in the late ’80s. When he was a boy, everyone’s father seemed to be unemployed. “I grew up wanting to escape; it’s that simple,” Boddice said.

As he made his way into and through academia—he received all of his degrees, up to and including his Ph.D., from the University of York—Boddice tried to lose the biggest marker of class identity in England, becoming “an accent chameleon,” as he put it. He was so successful that during his postdoc years, in the early 2000s, he gave a lecture one day in London in such a flawlessly scrubbed-down, international version of English that a British woman in the audience complimented him on his mastery of the language, assuming, because he was with the Freie Universität in Berlin, that he was German. “The only accent I cannot do now is my own, really,” he told me.

It’s not surprising that someone who has had to cycle through so many versions of himself would be attuned to the way an environment can mold how you talk or walk, which can in turn change the way you think and maybe who you are. Already as a graduate student, he was drawn to the work of anthropologists, such as Clifford Geertz, who appreciated and wrote about their own distance from the lived experience of their subjects, shaped by unspannable chasms of culture. In his dissertation, Boddice stared across this divide, asking why practices such as cockfighting and bullbaiting, now considered brutal and uncivilized, once appeared totally ordinary to British minds, and why this changed in the 19th century. These were the seeds of his fascination with how variable the human experience can be. His research showed that the same kind of activity that once caused delight, or at least did not cause alarm, could elicit revulsion just a few decades later. He wanted to know how this is possible.

Before the establishment of HEX, in 2018, Boddice struggled to find his place among the stiflingly confined categories of academia. He wanted to ask “the Bill & Ted question of history—what is the meaning of life?,” and this was not the standard way for a young researcher to begin to make his career. In the history of emotions and senses, Boddice finally found a receptive field, with well-funded new institutes in Berlin and Australia, that appealed to him for its more foundational approach to the human condition. But he also saw its limitations. Researchers were jumping into the archives with their own preconceptions; they were looking, say, for love in the 16th century by highlighting the word in various texts, but taking for granted a 21st-century sense of what love meant.

In The History of Emotions (2017) and then A History of Feelings (2019), Boddice wrote of the need to “surrender,” to let go of the very human impulse to empathize with the dead, as if their feelings and perceptions had been more or less like ours. He also suggested an interdisciplinary approach that is still unusual in most of academia—the attitude is generally one of “I’m a political historian, I’m an art historian, I’m a religious historian, I’m a material historian, I’m a historian of language,” he told me. Whereas if you want to summon back to life a world in which people lived and moved—and thereby isolate and characterize specific experiences—you need all of those disciplines together.

A History of Feelings opens by looking at the first word in the Western canon, which happens to refer to an emotion. At the start of The Iliad, Achilles is described as having mênis, which is usually rendered simply as “wrath” or “anger” or “rage” by English translators. Boddice didn’t think this made sense, because, first of all, Achilles doesn’t really act enraged; he just kind of broods. It isn’t until his friend Patroclus is killed, much later in the story, that he enters battle. This might seem like pedantic textual analysis, but for Boddice it is an opening to an emotion from deep antiquity that has been lost to time. Through a close reading of ancient-Greek usages of mênis, the feeling revealed itself to Boddice as something closer to unease at cosmic disorder (or, as Boddice put it to me, a “cosmic sulk”) than anything we’d associate today with anger. If mênis wasn’t motivating Achilles after Patroclus’s death, then what was? After examining images of Achilles on Greek pottery and reading accounts of ancient funeral rites, Boddice discerned what seemed like yet another form of grief, more violent in nature, which also has no real analogue today.

A 2020 paper by the German historian Bettina Hitzer shows how this approach to history can undermine what we often take for granted—for instance, that a bad smell is always and forever a bad smell. Hitzer looked at the way Nazi politics affected how the odors of cancer patients and their advanced tumors were perceived. Whereas in the 19th century these smells were mainly described as useful for aiding in diagnosis, in the Germany of the 1920s and ’30s, they elicited extreme disgust and were characterized as repellent in the medical literature of the time. Hitzer concludes that this has to do with the Nazis’ focus on purity and use of disease metaphors and imagery (describing Jews as “cancerous tumors” and having a distinct stench); this association altered what happened after the smell of the patients reached people’s noses, with the result that those odors created a feeling of moral disgust. It is impossible to understand sense and emotion—experience—without taking in the overwhelming politics of that era. As she notes, after 1945, “​【𝟰𝟵 𝗺】references to smell and disgust disappeared almost completely” from writing about cancer.

If the history of experience, as practiced and preached by Boddice, has a godmother, it is the celebrated New Zealand–born historian Joanna Bourke, now a professor emerita at Birkbeck, at the University of London, and a fellow of the British Academy. She has never deployed experience as an overarching term for describing her focus, but it captures well her approach to understanding the past, particularly in her work on how violence is felt. Her award-winning 1999 book, An Intimate History of Killing, considers how soldiers responded to violence in 20th-century warfare, including through what might seem like unexpected emotions, such as joy and catharsis. When I asked her if she’d gotten pushback earlier in her career from other historians for her focus on experience, she let out a big laugh. Recovering the feelings of historical actors was simply not done, she explained. If you wanted to understand people in the past, she said, “the emphasis was much more on what they did and what that tells us about the ways they are thinking, as opposed to what they were feeling and therefore what they did.”

I was curious specifically about Bourke’s work on the history of rape. The subject is inherently disturbing, and her treatment is itself unsettling. If we are to take seriously the idea that we cannot simply project backwards, then even those acts considered to be the gravest violations of bodily autonomy need to be understood for how they were felt in their time. How might rape have been experienced differently when it carried a societal stigma of “ruining” the woman who was attacked? And, even harder to grasp, what about what we now call marital rape? “Bodily autonomy is not what a woman in the 17th or 18th century is experiencing,” Bourke said. “She’s experiencing submission to the will of God, submission to the will of the husband.” But would the act feel different to her because the notion of bodily autonomy wasn’t part of her conceptual vocabulary, which is what I take Boddice and Bourke to be saying? She might feel a physical sensation of hurt, Bourke told me, but that is different from violence, which is the meaning one makes of hurt. At a time when there was not “any sort of idea of an emotional soul or self, or certainly not psychological self, that is being harmed,” the act would be perceived in a totally different way than in a world, like ours, with a concept like trauma, which can be physical or psychic. As strange and troubling as it may be to put aside our own moral precepts when looking at the past, this is the work of the historian, Bourke said: “to unpick the universal experience.” When she says unpick—a word Boddice also uses—I imagine the historian delicately tugging at the threads of what appears to be a smooth fabric and loosening it into a messy collection of misshapen emotions. Some will repel us, some will enlighten us, and some will remain forever impossible to grasp. photo with a double exposure, one of a man sitting in his living room next to a guitar with a hazy overlay of a 17th-century landscape painting Rob Boddice, a 48-year-old academic, has transformed the field known as the history of emotions and senses, and co-founded the discipline’s leading research institute, in Tampere, Finland. (Nasuna Stuart-Ulin for The Atlantic)

Boddice’s hope was for HEX to be a center of research that would take what he saw as the incredible heterogeneity of human experience as its starting point. The institute was funded in 2018 for a period of eight years with a 10-million-euro grant from the Finnish government. A few months before the funding ran out, Boddice moved to the University of Helsinki to begin what he called “a new, multidisciplinary project on panic.” (He remains affiliated with HEX as a researcher.) In 2023, I went to Tampere for HEX’s annual conference, hoping to get a sense of how widely shared Boddice’s approach is. The town is sometimes referred to as the Manchester of Finland, a 19th-century industrial hub whose skyline is still punctuated by puffing smokestacks (and where reindeer meat appears on every menu). Even in March, the ground was covered in treacherous black ice, and the sky hung heavy and gray. The university campus is a series of modernist glass-and-concrete structures in the center of the town. Boddice stood out during the three days, partly because he was wearing a three-piece pinstripe suit and a fedora most of the time, but also because he seemed to be the clear intellectual heavyweight trying to corral a scattered group of scholars and graduate students toward his vision of what the history of experience means.

Some of those present were very much aligned with the program, such as Piroska Nagy, a Hungarian-born medievalist in cat’s-eye glasses who is a co-editor, together with Boddice and Mark Smith, of a Cambridge University Press series on the history of emotions and senses—a gatekeeper role where they can nudge the field in their direction. “I made my Ph.D. on weeping,” Nagy told me, “a thousand years ago, when nobody worked on this kind of thing.” Nagy wrote about how crying in the Middle Ages was seen as signifying closeness to God. Both men and women alike cried in public (though each had different weeping styles) as a kind of ritualized act, a way to show contrition, ecstasy, or the presence of divine love.

At the HEX conference, many of the presentations I listened to would have been at home in nearly any such gathering focused on cultural history or comparative literature, with scholars seizing on some dredged-up nugget of esoterica from the archives without much context or sense of why it mattered. This was exactly the narrow, blinkered kind of history that Boddice was trying to break with. On a few occasions, I saw him gently take issue with a speaker for using decidedly contemporary categories to comprehend the past. One Finnish researcher, peppered by Boddice with questions about how generally he was describing emotions, answered, “But I’ve read Plato and Aristotle and those guys, and they talk about anger and fear.” I already knew enough to anticipate Boddice’s response: How can we understand what they meant by anger and fear?

You can’t entirely blame the other scholars; Boddice’s standards are exacting. At the same time, they lead to a place with no boundaries at all. If we concede that the meaning of experience is not necessarily the same from past to present, doesn’t the same logic make you wonder about the meaning of experience from culture to culture in the present? In fact it does, as Boddice readily admits. He is skeptical that any kind of universal baseline can be established for capturing how humans make their way through the world.

Producing history that tries to put a finger in this swiftly moving river is not easy, but when it actually happens, the results do feel revelatory and significantly different from other encounters with the past. For a good example, a few scholars at the HEX conference pointed me to a remarkable paper by the late Jan Plamper, a professor at Goldsmiths, at the University of London.

Plamper chose as his topic the sensory experience of the 1917 Russian Revolution, and specifically the change in experience that took place between the February revolution, which led to the czar’s abdication, and the October revolution later that year, when the Bolsheviks took power. Plamper considered the sounds and smells of that period not “as spice in the narrative” but as subjects “in their own right.” Drawing on contemporaneous observations from a variety of sources, the paper is crammed with extraordinary detail—the way the smell of cigars, associated with the bourgeoisie, suddenly provoked revulsion among the revolutionaries, or how the reality of peasants and workers pouring into the cities could be felt physically because the sidewalks were covered in sunflower-seed shells, the snack of the lower classes (“Pedestrians felt like they were walking on a cushioned carpet”). Between the disappearing sound of church bells and the increasing prevalence of the color red, the sensory environment was undergoing its own revolutionary change.

You can almost imagine the brain of a Russian that year trying to make meaning out of all the new signals. In February, when the revolution began, the new sound of occasional rapid gunfire was terrifying, but soon Petrograders could distinguish between live ammunition and blanks, and by October, when shooting started up again, they were habituated to the noise—and the particular quality of silence that followed it—as part of what marked revolutionary time.

This is history as disorientation, listening for the dissonances, when the gunfire starts and stops. The sources are the existing ones, but they are being used in new ways and in new combinations to try to answer how the Russian Revolution “became known”—in Plamper’s words—to the people who lived through it. The work pushes historians to do the uncomfortable and move outside the boxes they’ve been trained to operate within.

The universalism that Boddice mistrusts is a relatively new concept in human history. It comes to us from the Enlightenment. The presumption that all people share a common nature was dreamed up by European intellectuals sitting in their salons. Plenty of critics, starting with postcolonial thinkers, now understand this to have been an ideological attempt to exert power and order over a world that had recently become bigger and stranger. But this impulse toward uniformity is not just an 18th-century one. Freudian psychology also reduced the dynamism of the human mind to a machine powered by predictable and shared drives. By the time we get to our current globalized culture, in which a Korean thriller can win Best Picture at the Oscars and Latin pop stars dominate the U.S. charts, the notion that our emotional registers are all essentially alike feels self-evident.

And for all we know, it may be true. Even some historians who are keen, like Boddice, to reconstruct experience from scratch are reluctant to take the leap he makes when he questions whether humans have anything in common. Javier Moscoso is a professor at the Spanish National Research Council, and on its face, his methodology seems very similar to Boddice’s—the two have a lot of respect for each other. Moscoso’s most recent book, Arc of Feeling, looks at the experience of swinging as it has shown up across a very long sweep of human history—yes, swinging, as in going up and down on a swing, as well as the disorientation, but also the pleasure and pain, this causes. His many data points include depictions of swings in cave paintings made in western India during the fifth century C.E.; the “witch’s cradle,” once a form of torture in England in which a woman was placed in a sack suspended from a tree; and a 17th-century erotic Chinese novel that featured a swing in a loss of virginity. Moscoso’s process, he told me, is to “pay attention to the very singular, to something which is in principle irrelevant,” and build from there. He spoke to me of discovering, for example, the record of a Roman coin minted in the time of Tiberius that depicted two men pushing a woman on a swing, part of a series of coins depicting sexual positions, perhaps used for entry into a brothel.

Moscoso spoke with me over Zoom from Madrid, his head barely visible over a fluffy white cat that had decided to recline on his keyboard. Unlike Boddice, he is searching for continuity, not dissonance. And he definitely finds it in the physical experience of oscillation, which, over millennia, in almost every human society, has had strong associations with either sex or death (or both)—the swing shows up in similar erotic scenes on ancient-Greek vases and in 18th-century French pornography, and likewise as a source of terror, whether it’s witches rising and falling in the art of Goya or the condemned swinging from the gallows.

There is a “political agenda”—his words—to Moscoso’s work, and it is to discover commonality precisely at a moment of growing fragmentation in the modern world. “In times in which we are so much focused on differences, and identities, and precisely this kind of a parcellation of reality, you find, as a matter of fact, certain common features,” he told me. If Boddice insists that it is a mistake to go looking for love in the archives based on our definition of what love feels like, Moscoso counters by bringing up how consistently similar love stories are in different cultures and time periods. For instance, he pointed out, many of them are about lovers who are unequal and whose love is forbidden—whether it’s Pyramus and Thisbe in Ovid’s Metamorphoses ; or the ancient-Chinese story of the butterfly lovers, Liang Shanbo and Zhu Yingtai; or Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet. For Moscoso, these “structures of repetition” give you “an account of differences, but also of similarities,” a way people relate to love in the same way despite thoroughly different circumstances.

“My research is a sort of protest,” Moscoso said. “I believe that we are connected.” What we need is a “new Enlightenment,” a reassertion of what “makes us human”: at the very least so that there is a basis for something like civil rights and all the political philosophies—such as democracy, to name a particularly endangered one—that are built on the idea that to be human is a singular thing.

Does Boddice too blithely throw out this idea? “I like the romance of it,” he said when I asked him. And for the record, he added, he is not against finding common threads that connect humanity if he happens to come across them. But that is not his agenda. The way he wants his work to affect how we think today—a mission he also believes to be “ethically urgent”—is to move us away from the universal and automatic understanding of what it is to be human. Boddice is concerned that we are flattening ourselves. By not appreciating the full range of feeling that people are capable of, we are foreclosing a deeper engagement with one another, an engagement on terms that don’t demand that everyone be the same but leave room for the great unknown of what happens in other people’s heads. In A History of Feelings, he described our diminished and too limited vocabulary for emotions as “vague, empty or else crude.” The danger is that this reduced language, this emojification of emotional life, also reduces, quite literally, how much we can feel. History, at least in the way he sees it, might help. “I was motivated to not only show the richness and the unfamiliarity of past experience, but also to try to give people the tools to interrogate the politics of feeling in their present,” Boddice told me.

There is a danger, I think, and not a small one, in letting go of the bonds that connect us—in saying “Down with empathy”—but I can’t deny that Boddice’s perspective has a strange appeal at a moment when we feel so thoroughly alienated from one another’s experience of reality. We struggle to understand how other human beings don’t feel the same things we do—and this frustration often turns into anger and resentment. Maybe we would do better to start by recognizing the mystery of other people.

Certainly when it comes to the past, Boddice is up against strong (and popular) impulses, such as the notion that by donning a Civil War uniform or throwing an ancient spear, we can know something about how our ancestors related to the world. It makes sense that he has taken a radical position, if only to loudly resist such oversimplification.

But if I can offer something of a bridge: There is a universality to the question that Boddice spends most of his waking hours posing—that is, a universality to the very act of posing it. What species besides ours demands: What did it feel like? What animal besides us stares into a stranger’s eyes, or into the eyes of their grandparents, and builds whole philosophies around this question? Whether we see our reflection in others—past and present—or, like Boddice, insist on difference, the compulsion to ask this question, again and again, marks us. Maybe to be human, at the most basic level, is to be curious about other humans.

[–] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

"Dude like, imagine if people were free to do whatever they want."

You already live in that world. People just used that freedom to cooperate on certain things. But there's no universal power forcing you to do anything you don't want. It's just that you probably don't want the consequences of certain actions more than you want to perform those actions. Those consequences would be enacted on you by people exercising their freedom to do what they want (and don't want).

What most people want (perhaps some more low-key than others) is to be an all powerful tyrant god. And for all we know we already live in that world too, it's just that god hit the button.

  • source
  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    People don't know how good they have it. It's ironic that being on Lemmy is likely to speak volumes about one's level of luxury yet people here really, really don't like to be reminded that they are probably doing way better than most people in the world. Definitely unimaginably better than most people in the world in all history.

    Yeah the top 1% sucks and capitalism has to be reigned in but there's a lot of people here who are only interested in wallowing in their self-pity with the occasional whimper about how Communism/Socialism/Anarchism etc. would be a totally better system if not for capitalism and if everyone just agreed to do it (and somehow they actually don't see the problem with the argument). They make these posts and then pat themselves on the back about what good activists they are and then return to bitching about things happening half-way across the world but never give a single thought to doing something in their local community (because that would require actually dealing with real humans).

    It's kinda like the flip side of people who bitch about taxes not doing anything, while using infrastructure, probably in some level of safety, benefitting from public healthcare (if applicable) and schools etc. but because they're just used to it, they don't realize how big of a difference it makes. Most people on Lemmy have 0 concept of what it's actually like living in an oppressive and corrupt regime. They are addicted to misery because it gives them the reason to be inactive and permanentley outraged. They buy into all the doomscrolling (on their luxury devices, during their luxurious amount of free time) about how much things suck and of course, this just aids the capitalistic system because passive people seething at home about the injustices in the world are always better than active people on the streets trying to actually make a change happen.

    What people would need to do: consciously practice gratitude (this gives you energy) over what they have and especially who they have in their life, find LOCAL opportunities to engage in activism and connect with people (opportunities to practice what you preach too).
    What's easier to do: sit on your device, get angry about another injustice in the world, feel exhausted with "all the bad stuff in the world", don't do anything but post another meme that perpetuates the cycle.

    Also, inb4 Mr. Gotcha meme. Yeah, go ahead, compare yourself to a serf who couldn't even imagine the level of comfort you're living in.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    oooor, they know that they can demand my (and every other admin’s) recall, and the fact that they haven’t proves they just trust us.

    Of all the political people, you think it’s anarchists that would be loathe to call out bad power structures? Are you sure this is the argument you want to run with?

    Again, effort. Why bother with yet another power tripping admin when they can just hop on to another instance (or ideally, save their energy to actually do something meaningful in real life). It's just a niche online forum run by neurodivergents.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    You declare that by the fact that we have a red A next to our name, it gives us some massive boost in pushing our ideas through, even through democratic decision making, which if you knew anything about real-life anarchists, and particularly the neurodivergent sort we go to great lengths to attract, you’d know that people in position of undesired authority (even thouse imposed by the software) are given even more scrutiny than most.

    Except that people have already chosen to get into your system. If they didn't desire your system, they wouldn't be in it. They have already chosen for you to have some authority.

    You should try to be more charitable instead of superficially trying to gotcha people.

    Who are you to tell me what to do?

    indeed we self-organize around anarchist principles

    You didn't tho. Despite who organized the vote etc. the post stands posted by an Admin, and the post is in clear violation of your own stated Code of Conduct.

    We already do that. But we’re not going to avoid all democratic decision making until everyone is “enlightened” or some whatever shite you’re positing.

    The "shite" was following prominent Anarchist thinkers (Bakunin, Chomsky) in making the point. I never argued for infinite theoretical education, I argued that critical thinking and awareness of power dynamics are necessary to prevent informal elites. Without tools to recognize bias, framing, and authority signals, "self-organization" becomes a tool for the charismatic or well-connected to dominate.

    You can jump up and down all you want about how we “abandoned the ideals of anarchism”, but the mere dint of the matter that actual anarchists choose to voluntarily continue associating with us (and not raise a shitstorm), rather than the armchair theorist with the most superficial understanding of the theory (like you), is all the proof we need we’re going in the right direction.

    Unsurprisingly, the people who choose to associate with you agree with you. Have you considered that perhaps anarchists who don't agree with you simply don't feel that it's worth the effort to try to challenge your power structures? Judging by the way you respond to me, it would be futile as anyone who disagrees with you isn't a true anarchist.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    I wanna reply to this one more time (if you still care to read) because I've thought about this whole exchange a bit and realized that in lacking the spirit of charitability, I missed that from the perspective of db0 admins, it's likely that they think that because of Anarchist egalitarian ideals, representing the situation in any way they want - even extreme bias - is fine. Because from the principle of egalitarianism, they also do not have any particular responsibility to present the case "objectively".

    However, it still completely fails to follow the Anarchist Code of Conduct, falling into decidedly "Unacceptable" behavior and definitely not heeding the invitation for rational discourse, which propaganda, by definition, is not. In the case of the original post on db0, it may have indeed been a human error, but after it's been pointed out and unacknowledged, I'd say it has become an explicit rejection.

    Of course from my perspective it also runs into the ideal world problem inherent in Anarchism. The fact is that the posts in the community appear in a certain order (a hierarchy, if you will), and thanks to cognitive biases, what people see first is what will impact their thinking. Add to that the subtle but still existent authority signal, ironically, the red A (for Admin) next to the username. Considering the low stakes situation, there isn't much pressure to think about the matter deeply either, so it's just likely the first and loudest person wins in any case. Which gets to the larger problem in Anarchism where the Charismatic will become the new authority. An informal hierarchy, but a hierarchy none the less.

    From The Tyranny of Structurelessness by Jo Freeman:

    paljastus

    FORMAL AND INFORMAL STRUCTURES

    Contrary to what we would like to believe, there is no such thing as a structureless group. Any group of people of whatever nature that comes together for any length of time for any purpose will inevitably structure itself in some fashion. The structure may be flexible; it may vary over time; it may evenly or unevenly distribute tasks, power and resources over the members of the group. But it will be formed regardless of the abilities, personalities, or intentions of the people involved. The very fact that we are individuals, with different talents, predispositions, and backgrounds makes this inevitable. Only if we refused to relate or interact on any basis whatsoever could we approximate structurelessness -- and that is not the nature of a human group. This means that to strive for a structureless group is as useful, and as deceptive, as to aim at an "objective" news story, "value-free" social science, or a "free" economy. A "laissez faire" group is about as realistic as a "laissez faire" society; the idea becomes a smokescreen for the strong or the lucky to establish unquestioned hegemony over others. This hegemony can be so easily established because the idea of "structurelessness" does not prevent the formation of informal structures, only formal ones. Similarly "laissez faire" philosophy did not prevent the economically powerful from establishing control over wages, prices, and distribution of goods; it only prevented the government from doing so. Thus structurelessness becomes a way of masking power, and within the women's movement is usually most strongly advocated by those who are the most powerful (whether they are conscious of their power or not). As long as the structure of the group is informal, the rules of how decisions are made are known only to a few and awareness of power is limited to those who know the rules. Those who do not know the rules and are not chosen for initiation must remain in confusion, or suffer from paranoid delusions that something is happening of which they are not quite aware.

    For everyone to have the opportunity to be involved in a given group and to participate in its activities the structure must be explicit, not implicit. The rules of decision-making must be open and available to everyone, and this can happen only if they are formalized. This is not to say that formalization of a structure of a group will destroy the informal structure. It usually doesn't. But it does hinder the informal structure from having predominant control and make available some means of attacking it if the people involved are not at least responsible to the needs of the group at large. "Structurelessness" is organizationally impossible. We cannot decide whether to have a structured or structureless group, only whether or not to have a formally structured one. Therefore the word will not be used any longer except to refer to the idea it represents. Unstructured will refer to those groups which have not been deliberately structured in a particular manner. Structured will refer to those which have. A Structured group always has formal structure, and may also have an informal, or covert, structure. It is this informal structure, particularly in Unstructured groups, which forms the basis for elites.


    And as a contemplation, to answer your original question, @ageedizzle@piefed.ca: if we accept the way the db0 admins are running their instance as a form of Anarchism (rejecting the Code of Conduct), we are already living in an Anarchist society. This is what it looks like, taken to its logical conclusion. People will exercise their freedom to do what they want, by any means necessary, as the fact is that ultimately, nobody is inherently more valuable than another. There is no superior power inherent in reality to keep people in a hierarchy, we may only impose human-experience created hierarchies. And imposing hierarchy is by definition, an exercise of authority - the question is how intentional it is. Anarchy leads to unintentional, implicitly imposed hierarchies, which is what we have and which we actively try to remedy with intentional, explicitly imposed hierarchies, so that the seemingly arbitrary advantages of the charismatic or the strong do not function as an unchecked, default mandate for authority within the community. And in order to impose explicit hierarchies, those who want to do so need to have enough Charisma (however that manifests) to impose their implicit authority on others :^)

    @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com @Deceptichum@quokk.au @Takapapatapaka@tarte.nuage-libre.fr

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    You're purposefully sidestepping the extreme bias with which you presented the case, which is something you need to account for considering the privilege you have of establishing the leading argument (creating the thread and the vote in the first place) - If you were to actually follow Anarchist ideals.

    You "pulled out some choice morsels" from modlogs to illustrate your point. By selecting which data the community sees, you are using your technical power to dictate the level of information available to voters - exactly the "disparity of education" Bakunin warned about. You argue that obedience to anarchist principles is enough. But anarchism is not a set of rules to be obeyed; it is a method of self-organization. You cannot have "self-organization" if the "self" does not have the tools (education/critical thinking) to organize. By claiming education isn't necessary, the you're essentially saying: "You don't need to understand the system, you just need to do what "WE" ("the authority that's totes not an authority") call "mutual aid" and vote the way we set up the ballot." This is Vanguardism, not Anarchism.

    Also, in the spirit of mutual aid, would it not be in your best interest to try your best to educate the people in your community and empower them to think for themselves?

    And again, you are free to do as you please but then represent yourself accurately. You're merely demonstrating that you like the vibe of Anarchism but as per my initial point, Anarchism lacks functional power. As a result, you abandoned the Anarchist ideals in order to gain functionality.

    It seems to me you just dislike how the vote went and are deciding that everyone who voted against the way you want, is too stupid. I.e. you’re an elitist.

    I haven't said a single word about what I thought the result of the vote should have been. I have no inherent problem with the way you conducted the vote either, or what the outcome was, when stripped from the pretense of Anarchism. You are free to run your instance as you like, and people in it are free to interact with it however they want. I'm merely using it as an example of the point I've been making: Anarchism needs people to cooperate, yet lacks functional power to make cooperation to happen and so, people such as yourself will use some type of coercion (authority) to force cooperation the way they (the authority) wants.

    To @Deceptichum@quokk.au:

    While Orwell was a democratic socialist who fought with anarchists (the POUM and CNT/FAI) in Spain, Animal Farm is a critique of how a revolutionary vanguard (the pigs) uses their monopoly on information and language to gradually assume the same powers as the former masters.

    The pigs didn't just use force; they changed the "Seven Commandments" (the rules) and controlled the narrative to ensure the other animals "voted" or agreed with their direction. When an admin says, "We asked for a vote," but provides a biased framework for that vote, they are acting as the "pigs" who manage the "farm" while claiming everyone is equal.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (9 children)

    You don't have to be enlightened centrists, you are quite free to have whatever opinions you like. However, given your position as the organizing body of an anarchist community, the question is: why should your opinion carry more weight? Is your opinion more equal than that of others?

    "The abolition of authority means, the abolition of the monopoly of force and of influence; it means the abolition of that state of affairs for which social power, that is the combined forces of society, is made into the instrument of thought, the will and interests of a small number of individuals, who by means of the total social power, suppress, for their personal advantage and for their own ideas the freedom of the individual" -Errico Malatesta, Anarchy

    You have certain power and you specifically used that power to impose your own ideas on others.

    that person doesn’t understand anarchism whatsoever and uses that failed understanding to claim it doesn’t work.

    "Instead all that happens in the world is done by people; and government qua government, contributes nothing of its own apart from the tendency to convert everything into a monopoly for the benefit of a particular party or class, as well as offering resistance to every initiative which comes from outside its own clique. " -Errico Malatesta, Anarchy

    The anarchist code of conduct says that it's "unacceptable to ... degrade, insult etc. another person/group because of their... acceptance of any unfavorable or disfavorable group, whether this group is political, economic, social, or cultural.". Further you failed to provide grounds for rational discourse, another anarchist ideal.

    For Anarchism to work, there needs to be consensus, and an Anarchist community needs to do it's utmost to ensure that all people in the community have roughly the same level of education both in terms of knowledge and ability for critical thinking. Without these, informed consent is impossible. While I appreciate that you as a Lemmy admin can't make sure that everyone goes to school, you still could've done your best to give people the tools to think about the matter from the level of education they have. Instead, you presented the vote from the level of information and opinions you have - driving for the result you wanted.

    "It is natural that he who knows more will dominate him who knows less. And were this disparity of education and education and learning the only one to exist between two classes, would not all the others swiftly follow until the world of men itself in its present circumstances, that is, until it was again divided into a mass of slaves and a tiny number of rulers, the former labouring away as they do today, to the advantage of the latter"

    "It is very often the case that a highly intelligent worker is obliged to hold his tongue when confronted by a learned fool who defeats him, not by dint of intellect (of which he has none) but by dint of his education" -Michael Bakunin, Integral Education

    "In other words: educate them the “right way” — to be obediently passive and accept their fate as right and just, conforming to the New Spirit of the Age. Keep their perspectives narrow, their understanding limited, discourage free and independent thought, instill docility and obedience to keep them from the Masters’ throats." -Noam Chomsky, The Common Good

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    Frequently seen in the sentiment "everyone should be free to do whatever they want" and the part they don't say out loud is "except form a collective that limits the freedoms of people".

    It also follows from the sentiment "there should be no borders" (as that necessarily sets the demand that everyone should agree with you to not have borders)

    The paradox is that to maintain a "free" society, the system must eventually coerce those who do not consent to being "free" in the way the system defines it.

    (Also anticipating the harm reduction principle as a protest: who gets to define what is "harmful" and why should everyone agree? It just kicks the can down the road.)

     

    Just something in my life is like this. I feel like I'm getting ever closer to it but there's always half the distance to it remaining.

    I know all the things about how to deal with that but man... it's a hell of a feeling, mixture of being both tantalized and tormented. I don't think I even hate the feeling. There's something vaguely similar to holding off on an orgasm. Ultimate tease by life itself, except there's no safeword.

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