he was unaware Mix could share patron data with neighboring businesses but did not see a problem with it. “I think it’s cute that they share it amongst other bars,” he wrote. “It’s like a little cybersecurity community.”

Non tech people don't understand, gay bar owners are not civil rights advocates who are attuned to digital privacy. It's ignorance and I hope to god they get a shitton of media attention that teaches them this is a bad idea, and then we can start a movement on it.

Peter Thiel sponsorship?

In the UK, pubs have a system to share data on local troublemakers. I know a lot of people in the business (a family member is a pub manager) and it's entirely used to keep people out who have committed acts of aggression. The info shared is "X pub has banned Y person for Z reason." Other pubs can do the same if they choose. That way, if one pub owner is known to be overly ban-happy, the others aren't obliged to go along with it. You quickly learn which owners have sense and which don't. And the bans are almost always time-limited.

And yeah, pubs in the UK generally have CCTV. The retention period is short, the data is held by the pub, not shared with the police unless the police request it, and it's one of the only ways an assault in a pub will be prosecuted. If someone kicks off on you, that footage can be the difference between you (or them) being charged or not.

So a system like that can be run responsibly, protect patrons, and not be a surveillance hell. Whether that's what's happening in the 'Stro is another question. I'd say that anything beyond face, name and reason for being banned constitutes excessive data collection. There's no reason to know the person's address. The other ways to maintain privacy protection are having a short data retention policy and not sharing the data wholesale with the police or other authorities. If the US had something like the GDPR, that'd help.

I'm tired. I read "Costco gay bars" at first and thought $1.50 hot dogs at a gay bar would be a helluva good business idea.

Now I'm thinking of some nice man wearing a party shirt with the Kirkland logo all over it.

Maybe it's just any gay bar that caters to middle age and older. After the days of youthful, wild parties give way to tamer, fiscally responsible nights. Gotta get to bed early enough to wake up for a run to the real Costco before it gets too busy. The kids need a palette of La Croix.

Most of the clubs in my city have used this type of system for over 15 years. It's billed as a way to keep known gang members and people who have assaulted others from the establishments that use the system.

Definitely has a different connotation of surveillance now than when I was out partying at places with it.

Because they are after all the LGBT, nobody is safe, and the companies running these systems are building the profiles that will be used when they move on to the next step of christian nationalist agression.

Castro bars? Must be for Fidelity.

Are there non-gay bars on Castro st? Never been to SF but all I know is that’s like the most iconic/historic gay district

They should only scan trouble makers after they make trouble. Any face scans on entry should be checking against the trouble maker database then not save anything unless there is a hit. They should not default to saving everyones data.

Les Natali

Mix is one of at least three bars in the Castro, including Badlands and Toad Hall on 18th Street, that wheel out the Patronscan kiosk each night to collect the personal data of every customer that comes through the door, including names, addresses, genders, and even how they behave inside the bar.

What in the distopian fuck.

Management from Mix, Badlands, and Toad Hall did not respond to requests for comment about when or why they first started using the surveillance tech in their businesses, so I stopped by Mix last Thursday night to check things out for myself.

Like most private surveillance cameras, the Patronscan kiosk at Mix hides in plain sight. In the dim light of the bar, the black machine is easy to miss. I was also not instructed to face the camera when I handed my ID to the bouncer; when I asked if I would be photographed, the bouncer told me the camera had in fact already taken my picture. They said Mix bouncers are not required to verbally tell each patron that they’re being photographed by the Patronscan device. Instead, they rely on a small informational plaque posted to the kiosk below eye level to inform customers what data is being collected and how it will be used.

This shit right here is how the authoritarianism spreads - businesses voluntarily making themselves part of the surveillance state. There is no difference between this and Flock.

Any location that implements such technology should be publicly shamed and boycotted.

Launched in 2005, the company has been the subject of several legal disputes in recent years as surveillance technology and consumer tech literacy grow more sophisticated. In 2020, Canada’s privacy commissioner sent a cease and desist letter to Patronscan after the company was discovered using the government office’s official logos, creating “a misleading and false impression” that its services are approved by city, state, or federal officials.

Oh yeah, that sounds like a totally above-board and trustworthy business. Nothing shady going on there.

The morning after we chatted in the Castro, Gonzalez told me over Instagram DM that he was unaware Mix could share patron data with neighboring businesses but did not see a problem with it. “I think it’s cute that they share it amongst other bars,” he wrote. “It’s like a little cybersecurity community.”

Yes, your very own little police state. How cute.

Fucking disgusting. These are the kind of people who complain about their neighbors on Nextdoor.

From the article itself: In today’s political climate, she said, “it’s really not great to have lists of gay people.”

1984

Creepy

They only work if people let them. Choose other venues ans let them know why on their socials and their online reviews and they disappear.

Gay bars are already struggling. Let the good ones win out. This doesnt make patrons safer. Those coming to do harm wont be in the system already.