personally i think everyone should be required to retake a driving test every 10 years it's absurd you only take it once at 16ish
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I would say 79 is way too high, seniors should be tested every 5 years after 65. Another commentor points out we should be doing every 10 years which is a decent idea as well.
frankly there should at least be an online refresher and test that people have to take every year, traffic laws change and people forget things.
But changing traffic laws isn't what makes people bad drivers.
Everyone should have to take the written AND driving portion of the test every 10 years or so.
Is your idea for a written and practical test every 10 years supported by any data or is it arbitrary?
Edit: tl;dr it's arbitrary
It's true that it would do nothing for someone who deliberately breaks the law but, especially when it comes to the elderly, poor vision and reaction time is a big factor in driving ability - both would be obvious during a practical exam.
Then why do it at every 10 years instead of when the applicant hits a certain age threshold?
In Minnesota, your vision gets tested every time you renew your license and if you have to put on corrective lenses to take it then that goes on your license. You get pulled over not wearing corrective lenses and it's on your license you can be penalized for that. You fail the vision test you don't get to renew.
Because things change? People get worse at different ages? I dunno man, I like the idea of some routine verification that someone is capable of safely using a 2-ton murder machines.
How many deaths does it have to prevent for it to be worth it?
I like the idea of some routine verification that someone is capable of safely using a 2-ton murder machines.
Legally using a 2-ton murder machine. The requirement itself doesn't actually stop anyone from driving.
How many deaths does it have to prevent for it to be worth it?
I don't even know how you'd prove it prevents deaths. The increased fatal crash risk among older drivers is largely due to their increased susceptibility to injuries, particularly to the chest, and medical complications, rather than an increased tendency to get into crashes.
I ask these questions to try and understand how you came to your premise but I'm thinking you picked something arbitrary that sounded good?
I'm all for measures to reduce traffic related deaths and injuries but it's always a balance trying to implement effective legislation that doesn't create an undue burden on the people or the systems affected by the legislation.
You asked me why I liked Idea A more than Idea B and I told you.
Now you've just written me a lengthy reply about why Idea B is actually bad and expecting me to defend it.
You are being weirdly aggressive about a strawman and it's extremely offputting. Please don't do that.
You asked me why I liked Idea A more than Idea B and I told you.
No, I didn't. I asked "What does the driving portion demonstrate outside of the drivers ability to properly drive under specific, controlled circumstances?".
You replied specifically referencing the elderly and vision and reaction concerns.
Which is why I asked "Then why do it at every 10 years instead of when the applicant hits a certain age threshold?"
Then you replied with "I don't know", routine verification, and saving lives, but that's not supported by the data and, similar to gun control, a written AND practical test every year only burdens law abiding drivers because not having a valid license doesn't actually prevent anyone from driving.
Now you’ve just written me a lengthy reply about why Idea B is actually bad and expecting me to defend it.
I don't think a practical driving test is bad. I'm just unclear why you think every 10 years makes sense, especially when your concern seems to be elderly drivers. That's why I asked "Then why do it at every 10 years instead of when the applicant hits a certain age threshold?" which you seemed to struggle to answer.
You are being weirdly aggressive about a strawman and it’s extremely offputting. Please don’t do that.
Where am I being aggressive? By asking questions to understand what logic and information was used to arrive at "a written and practical test every 10 years"? These are pretty basic questions a logic based and data driven solution should answer.
What strawman? Where did I misrepresent or distort your argument for "a written and practical test every 10 years"?
I truly wouldn't care if your idea became the law tomorrow but I would still have all the same questions.
We have new drivers in Minnesota currently that have to book practical driving tests months in advance or go way out state just to get in. If everyone had to do the practical to renew the burden on the examiners and DVS would skyrocket.
The public testing centers for practical driving tests are not as prevalent as regular licensing centers that just process paperwork here either. This adds a burden to people, especially lower income, who would now have to travel further and take more time missing work just to renew their license.
I was literally giving an example of something apparent at a practical exam. I'm not reading another essay from you, farewell!
I'm not reading
You could have stopped there. Why comment if you're going to get so bent out of shape about simple questions that you resort to projection and deflection?
Perhaps you should be looking in a mirror when you throw around claims like engaging in a strawman and being aggressive.
Perhaps don't put words in people's mouths and write dissertations about it? The lengths of our replies should be evidence enough that one party is trying to force an argument and the other simply isn't interested.
Please move on and have a good day!
Is your idea for a written and practical test every 10 years supported by any data or is it arbitrary?
Deflection is a defense mechanism characterized by redirecting a conversation away from a challenging topic or issue to something less emotionally charged. It can manifest in various ways, such as changing the subject, asking a question, making a joke, or even becoming defensive or aggressive.
Buddy, you may be an expert in vehicular regulations but I sure hope you don't think you're expert in picking up on social cues.
I will be blunt and leave no room for doubt here - I am not interested in debating this topic nor am I interested in debating anything with you in particular.
Imagine being in a casual conversation in real life and having some random guy walk up and start ranting about a point you weren't making. You're confused but acknowledge their presence out of courtesy. Then they drop another essay on you and this time they're insisting you defend the point.
That's you in this thread. You're that annoying guy.
Please go make some friends. Your smarter-than-thou attitude is absolutely insufferable.
I'm not going to read your essay.
I'll just assume it's arbitrary and pulled out of your ass since you keep deflecting instead of answering questions.
You still think you somehow deserve an answer lol
Don't stew over this too long, lil bro. It's not healthy.
I know the answer now, it's an arbitrary idea you pulled from nowhere.
I thought a short response was what you wanted but it seems you just don't want to overtly state your premise is arbitrary.
I do have another question. Is your ego so fragile that you have to accuse others of the things you do when questioned?
You accused me of a strawman and then engaged in it yourself. You accused me of being aggressive for asking questions to understand what reasoning you used to arrive at your premise but then engaged in personal attacks. You repeatedly engaged in deflection. You might want to work on your mental maturity.
I'd fully support your idea if it was practical and data supported at all but it's clearly not. Pointing that out seems to upset you.
The joke is on me for assuming you actually had sound reasoning based on information that would be new to me rather than just your feelings.
Yeah every 10 years would be good even if you assume they did learn everything correctly the first time and don't forget anything, just to make sure people are keeping up with changes in the law. I regularly still see people loudly sharing interpretations of the law on social media that haven't been true for a decade. And then speed it up to every 5 years after 65 to additionally account for senescence.
Makes sense. If we can trust 87 year olds to govern the country, why can't we trust them to drive? /s
Hmm
Illinois Secretary of State Alexi Giannoulias alongside AARP Illinois
Guess the old regulations might have been eating into profits
Still out of 55,000 administered tests only 97 failed. Imho they should keep the restriction because it did remove 97 unsafe drivers.
However, This also creates a path for immediate family members to report unsafe elderly family members. There was no way to report anyone before this was created.
So is it midlyinfurating? I suppose in that it may allow unsafe drivers to stay on the roads but with immediate family reporting it could also be a wash. I very much doubt these changes will pull more unsafe drivers than the regulations from before since family members will probably be hesitant to report elderly family members
why should reporting be limited to immediate family?
if the neighbors see mr. jones take out a shrub or hop curbs the rest of the world ceases to matter, just immediate family?
in case anyone's wondering, according to data from the National Center for Health Statistics, in 2021, the life expectancy in Illinois was 77.1
My nanna drove until 80. My Nana shouldn't have driven until 80. He hit something once a week
Should be every 2 years past age 60 if you want to keep your license.
Sorry, for every 20 year old doing 90, there's ten seniors wobbling between 2 lanes in a giant SUV intentionally purchased to protect them from the accidents their diminished capacity will cause, about to do a double lane change in the opposite direction of their blinker that's been on since they left their driveway.
Ive always found it bonkers that young drivers with the sharpest reflexes are punished to the maximum from insurance to rental car rates, as they should, while no one dares punitive action against people who literally lack the faculties to drive safely if they wanted to and incur the wrath of AARP and the like. But those necrotic seniors make the rules, sadly. They can cause accidents with abandon, but some thing's gotta be done about those young maniacs on the road driving 10 over the speed Limit as you drive 30 under it with white, arthritic knuckles on the steering wheel for dear life, calling your impromptu roadblock "safe."
This is... really specific..
Part of that is a legal issue. People over 40 are a protected class, you can't discriminate against old people for being old. Young people can get fucked though.
The only reason this would need to be a bill is if people are upset that they are failing the exam. Which means they qre failing the exams, to the surprise of no one.
What we should be doing instead is making our neighborhoods more accessible to those without cars. I'm sure they feel like their mobility is gone if they lose their license, but that shouldn't be the case to begin with.
Really, you can't think of any reason to be upset that you're required to take an exam that you then pass?
I mean the general logic of it isn't totally off the wall, any more so than say why we're annoyed that ID laws make it harder to vote.
But I could still 100% say, obviously if you need/want a drivers license, it's fair to say you have reliable transportation. At 79 you are almost certainly either not working, or so well established wherever you are that you aren't at risk of getting fired for needing to schedule a 3 hour trip to the DMV.
Republicans: "Hillary Clinton was pushing population control!"
Also Republicans:
I expected the main writers of the bill to be about 78, but they look younger. (I'm not digging into it more)
This is your regular reminder that it's generally not older people who are high-risk drivers: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/628ce5c7e90e071f68b19dfa/02-image-2.svg
Drivers get safer until about 70, and only get less safe than your average young driver when over 86.
There is a perception that older drivers are an absolute liability on the roads, which I can only assume stems from impatient people who get frustrated when stuck behind an older driver going more slowly than they'd like.
That's from the UK? I don't think you can extrapolate UK driving data to the US. Roads and car use don't compare at all.
In the absence of forthcoming data (hint hint), what factors do you think differ between the UK and USA which affect the ability of very old/very young drivers?
Car dependency mainly. A 65yo in the UK that dosen't feel physically capable of driving can still have an independent live, using public transit or walking. In the US you depend on cars for everything.
That doesn't affect the ability of older drivers, only the number of them.
In fact, since one reason very old drivers might get more accident prone is because they stop driving as much and lose some of the skills, you would expect that, if older Americans really persist in driving more as they get older (you haven't provided any evidence that they do) they would retain those skills and be less accident prone, not more, so would be safer, and less at need of re-tests, than their UK counterparts.
Focusing on the driving safety of the elderly is a classic example of Saliency Bias. A 20-year old kid wrecking his car is nothing unusual so you don't remember it when thinking about safety. An 80 year old who can't even remember which way to turn the wheel getting in a wreck is unusual and extreme, so it's more salient. Getting stuck behind an elderly driver gives you the impression that they're a bad and hence unsafe driver, which contributes to this.
It's self select the drivers that have the ability to drive. A nearly blind old person on the UK can have a fulfilling live walking and using public transit, the same nearly blind old person in the US have no choice but to keep driving.
It's a shame that you're so quick to express skepticism but so reluctant to do any research of your own, because the facts are a bit embarrassing with the exact same trend in the USA as in the UK.
Driver safety peaks in the 60s, and only moderately worsens after then. The large increase in fatal accidents, by the way, is clearly a result of older drivers being more vulnerable in a crash - because the chart at the bottom doesn't show any such large increase for passengers and others.
I'm interested to know if this changes your mind.
Not every 70 YO is the same health. Some can barely see at that age, or at night. There are also plenty of health issues or medications taken at this age which could affect reactions or alertness. Not saying it can't happen to the young, but it's far more prevalent.
You're arguing against factual stats with some kind of generic "old people have old people problems sometimes" ?
Yes. The young are reckless causing most of their accidents. We do what we can to prevent those accidents, seems like we could do a lot more. The old have accidents from downsides of aging/slowing reaction times/health issues. We can definitely do more than just hoping their kids take the keys away before it's too late. One idea is regular driver's tests starting at a certain age.
Fact is that if you want to spend some money, time or political capital on improving road safety, targeting older drivers is not where you should focus your efforts. The fact that it frequently is, is due to ageism.
I wonder if raising the licencing age to 25 would reduce the curve or just shift it to the right
Maybe it'll save money. Illinois is broke and we're one of the last good states
Arent the drivers required to pay the fee?
ha ha ha
once a driver is 75, they pay $5 for their dl. at 82, it’s $2 for a 2y license. at 87 it’s free for an annual license.

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